Broken exhaust manifold stud - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old December 10th, 2008, 01:30 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Broken exhaust manifold stud

Ok, I'm pretty sure I'm screwed but looking for any words of wisdom (or pity) in case I have forgotten anything.

In order to satisfy a pesky VA safety inspector, I was attempting to tighten the bolts connecting the y-pipe to the manifold on my '84 110 (RHD) to stop a very slight exhaust leak and snapped one off. Of course it's the forward most one, tucked up in the corner between the frame rail and the motor mount, with the diff below so utterly impossible to get anything in there to try cut a thread on the remaining bit of stud or try an extract it.

I think at this point my only option is to remove the manifold, but am hoping not...

thanks,
charles
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  #2  
Old December 10th, 2008, 01:42 PM
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Been there done that, save yourself the hassle and pull the manifold, remove all three studs and replace them with new ones, if the manifold is really oxidized you could run a drill bit through the holes and replace the studs with bolts and nuts which will end this problem once and for all.
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  #3  
Old December 10th, 2008, 01:57 PM
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Exhaust places have an attachment to a mig welder that welds in a new stud. It is a stud with a hole down the center for the wire to travel through. Drill out old stud, weld in new one.

Ron

edit: forgot the obligatory "there is nothing wrong with Janey, why did you try to fix her, you just ended up braking her"
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  #4  
Old December 10th, 2008, 02:02 PM
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Why would you want to replace a problem with a problem? With a bolt you will not break the stud again and the bolts are easier to get to because you have two ends to work with.
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  #5  
Old December 10th, 2008, 02:06 PM
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Charles Galpin
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This is on the side with the box on top of the manifold with the warm air tubes that go to the carbs, so I think bolt through is out of the question. But I am sure with it on the bench I could remove the studs and replace them. It just means more chance to hit some other issue and I need to get gaskets etc now.

Ron, I'll call an exhaust place to see what they say, but have low hopes and expectations.

thanks,
charles
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  #6  
Old December 10th, 2008, 02:10 PM
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Well, I don't know what engine you have in that thing, but if it is the normal V8 I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get to it. I use an impact on all of them when I remove Y pipes. Are you sure you can't get to them with a long 3/8 extension? If you can, you might be able to use one of these to remove the stud.

http://www.matcotools.com/ProductImages/mex48.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg
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  #7  
Old December 10th, 2008, 02:36 PM
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With a long extension I guess so. The first kit is an extractor set. What's the second?

It's a 3.5L V8. I think there are differences in the manifold but not where it mates to the block (not sure about the y-pipe connector) and nothing material unless there is a gasket difference.

charles
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Old December 10th, 2008, 03:06 PM
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The second is a different type of extractor. Each one has three cams inside of it, so it slips over the stud, but when you turn to loosen it, the cams twist into place and grip the sides of the stud. You can also use it for installing studs as the cams work in both directions. It is really a great tool, and not to pricey either!
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Old December 10th, 2008, 03:09 PM
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Cool, probably worth a try - I have about a 1/2 of stud visible. Can you link me to it? That image URL doesn't give me any way to find it.

Also, if anyone knows if the gaskets differ between the 3.5L and 3.9L please let me know (in case I end up removing the manifold)

thanks
charles
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  #10  
Old December 10th, 2008, 03:14 PM
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Try a google search for SK stud extractor or Facom stud extractor. I don't know who has the best price though. I bought mine years ago from the Snap-On guy that came by our shop at the time. A quick search showed some places with them priced kinda high I think. They were a little over $100 but I don't remember spending that much on them. There was a UK site that had them for about $50 I think (rough estimate of currency conversion).
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  #11  
Old December 10th, 2008, 05:59 PM
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Mmh, those are a bit pricey for my tastes. 8 bolts on the manifold are sounding pretty good right now
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  #12  
Old December 10th, 2008, 06:13 PM
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Is this enough inspiration for you to register it as an antique on Jan. 1?
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Old December 10th, 2008, 06:45 PM
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Thought I had to wait until my next registration which is august or november. Do they just go by the year?

But yeah, with antique plates I don't need an inspection!
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Old December 10th, 2008, 06:51 PM
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The problem with replacing it with a bolt is that you're just delaying the problem and not solving it. The best way to do it is to pull the manifold, take it down to a machine shop, and have proper new bronze studs installed. Then reassemble with a copious amount of anti-sieze anyways.

-Hans
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Old December 10th, 2008, 06:53 PM
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Are the OEM studs (or whatever I'd get at AB/RN) bronze?
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Old December 10th, 2008, 07:12 PM
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bronze studs? forget it. use steel ones with hi temp antisieze. use double length brass nuts with thick washers and you won't have any issues taking it apart the next time.

charles, you need to get the manifold off and put plenty of heat and pb blaster in there or you can forget abbout removing that stud without breaking it.

you young kids, it is so heartening watching you learn how to work on rusty cars. now you know what us series guys have been dealing with all this time...

and whoever suggested drilling it through, ever heard of a helicoil??

ok, I guess i'll go back to being quiet since my RR exhaust has more leaks then the Karl Roves press corps.

oh yeah, one more thing...VA antique tags...get em once and you are set for the life of the car. Highly recommended.

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Originally Posted by cgalpin
Are the OEM studs (or whatever I'd get at AB/RN) bronze?
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  #17  
Old December 10th, 2008, 07:29 PM
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Alright gramps. Yeah, historic plates are on my todo. I don't know Janey's DOB and Calvin just say its model year 1983, 1984. The DMV says

"If you own a passenger vehicle, trailer, semi-trailer or motorcycle with a model year that is more than 25 model years old before January 1 of the current calendar year, you've got an antique!"

So I'm not sure if they will consider her "more than 25 model years old" before Jan 1 2009. 2009-1984 = 25, but "more than" by definition means it needs to be 26 no?

http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/ci...es/antique.asp
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Old December 10th, 2008, 07:46 PM
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I had the same issue with my '83, but they really didn't care -- just fill out the application for antique plates and hand it over to them. I can also very highly recommend the DMV at the Arlington Government Center -- no lines and they're much easier going than are traditional DMVs.

But yes, by the letter of the law I believe you're right.
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Old December 10th, 2008, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrooks
Is this enough inspiration for you to register it as an antique on Jan. 1?
great minds think alike

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin
I don't know Janey's DOB
birth certificate optional.

In Maryland they are "Historic" tags not antique. Aside from being emission and safety inspection exempt the registration is $50 for 24 mos instead of $190.
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  #20  
Old December 10th, 2008, 11:38 PM
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You can get a small c-clamp from the hardware store. Pull off the t-handle and put a lock nut on it. Replace t-handle. Tighten and lock with second nut. It will last until your 4.6 or 200tdi install. Pesky inspector indeed.
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