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  #21  
Old November 20th, 2012, 10:46 AM
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IMHO it would take me 2.0-3.0 hours if nothing went wrong.

11 hours is book time to R and R the engine.
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  #22  
Old November 20th, 2012, 02:33 PM
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Crown and Roverlab - I can see your points about shop time and customer supplied parts not working but I have had the flip side work not in my favor. Spent $800 (stupid me didn't confirm quote prior) for a clutch cylinder job a couple years ago. The garage ordered the parts and just over a year the MC was leaking on my shoe. Went back to the garage and it was pretty much tough shit. FWIW, if I do use those guys now they have no problem with/me ordering my own parts.

Regarding the clutch mc job, I got new parts from various vendors and I got pissed and did it myself. And happy I did.

One plus on doing it yourself is you can take your time and cleanup and paint anything that is snotty. When the garage did the mc job there was rusty/bare metal from the brake fluid leaking and it was still there afterwards and one of those little things that pissed me off each time I got into my 90. Now, its cleaned up and dialed and I am glad I did it myself everytime I see it.

There are plenty of heads on this board that will help out in every step if need to. I say do it yourself and agree that the oil cooler lines would be a good update while everything is opened up.
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  #23  
Old November 20th, 2012, 02:55 PM
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All true. I get not warrantying parts they don't supply, but to add 30% on top of already expensive labor to pad your pockets is ridiculous. In this case, I truly believe the shop doesn't know NAS Defenders. Anyone who's worked on them knows how simple they are to work on.

Maybe he's full, and doesn't need the work,
Maybe he looked up the wrong thing.
Maybe he thinks Defender owners expect to pay more

Who knows. I did call him out on the cost, and he conceded that the radiator itself was only a couple hours, but, "That thermostat is hard to get to, and those hoses are really hard too" - interpret that however you want, but it says to me, look elsewhere for service.

If all goes well, ArmyRover and I can get together and DIY this one of these days, which would be great.

And Oil lines were done 2 years ago, one of the first things I did:

http://found90.wordpress.com/2010/06/29/new-oil-lines/
http://found90.wordpress.com/2010/10/02/sigh/
http://found90.wordpress.com/2010/10/10/validation/

The radiator has needed to be done for a while, so for this project, I'm going the radiator, hoses, heater hoses, thermostat, viscous fan, and water pump while I'm in there.

I don't really need to call out the shop in question, there are so few shops here in Chicagoland, this is the one that had to change their name a couple years ago. I know they work on Defenders, but this area is very heavy in Discos, and I believe that is their main business.
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  #24  
Old November 20th, 2012, 03:58 PM
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Looking at my schedule here at work, not this weekend but next weekend would work say 2 December?
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  #25  
Old November 20th, 2012, 04:12 PM
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the thermostat is a 10min job ... and i make my own gaskets!

while you are in there do the little hoses that are by the thermostat ... one rubs on the jubilee clip and wears a small hole over time.
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #26  
Old November 20th, 2012, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by founD90 View Post
"That thermostat is hard to get to, and those hoses are really hard too"
Run away quickly. Either this guy is inept, does not know Defenders or is a liar.
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  #27  
Old November 20th, 2012, 04:25 PM
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If it's who I think it is, he is definitely inept, and I wouldn't trust him with my Rover ever.
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  #28  
Old November 20th, 2012, 05:36 PM
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It seems like the guy is an idiot, but could it be, he just did not want to do the work... So, he quoted it high.
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  #29  
Old November 20th, 2012, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
google 'Defender Labor Operation Times pdf'
Jason this is a great resource. So according to this guide, I can sort of see where they got to 11 hours:

Hoses and Pipes - 4.0
Radiator - 1.5
Thermostat - 2.9
Fans - 1.8
Coolant System Flush & test -1.1
Total: 11.3 @ $125/hour = $1412.50

It does make you wonder why hoses take 4.0 while the entire radiator only takes 1.5....

Doesn't make it right, but if all he had to go off was this guide, here's how he came up with $1400.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...qWW_sxICIkS_mw
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  #30  
Old November 20th, 2012, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by founD90 View Post
Jason this is a great resource. So according to this guide, I can sort of see where they got to 11 hours:

Hoses and Pipes - 4.0
Radiator - 1.5
Thermostat - 2.9
Fans - 1.8
Coolant System Flush & test -1.1
Total: 11.3 @ $125/hour = $1412.50

It does make you wonder why hoses take 4.0 while the entire radiator only takes 1.5....

Doesn't make it right, but if all he had to go off was this guide, here's how he came up with $1400.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...qWW_sxICIkS_mw
I can see what he's done ... by the thermostat jobs are all the same ... operation ... you should only select one of them ... not all 3!

I'm willing to pay for actual labor time ... not book time ... why should a garage be paid for more hours that they work?
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  #31  
Old November 20th, 2012, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
I can see what he's done ... by the thermostat jobs are all the same ... operation ... you should only select one of them ... not all 3!

I'm willing to pay for actual labor time ... not book time ... why should a garage be paid for more hours that they work?

Book time keeps the tech motivated and focused... If you paid actual time, you would probably pay more for a repair, as they would not have an incentive to finish quickly. Plus, typically they work on more than one car at a time, to maximize efficiency, while they wait on parts or other delays. Not to mention, some techs are more proficient than others.
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