BIG PROBLEMS - Drive train/Trans - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old May 5th, 2015, 09:18 AM
minch77's Avatar
minch77
Status: Offline
Minch
1997/Defender 90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 63
Registry
Unhappy BIG PROBLEMS - Drive train/Trans

There are two parts to this matter:

1. While wrestling with one issue for which I had gotten advice on the forum, a clunking noise coming from the front left wheel that cropped up after my mechanic/friend replaced my rotors, pads, calipers, I followed forum advice and eliminated steering ball joint, suspension, etc. I was convinced it had something to do with how they refitted the inner axel and hardware after removing it for the brake job. The noise corresponded to the rotation of the tire at 360 degrees. It was silent when driving straight--as soon the D-90 shifted weight for a turn I would hear it. Again, it clunked as the tire rotated and with each full rotation while turning. Could it be related to the brakes? Before you answer, here is the next BIG problem.

2. I drove it a block and was slowly making 360 degree turns in a gravel parking lot trying to focus on the clunk. It seemed to get louder with each rotation while turning tightly. BANG! While slowly driving in circles a loud bang followed by what sounded like spinning gears grinding occurred. Despite being in drive it would not drive. I engaged the 4 wheel and limped it 2 blocks home. During that slow ride home at 5 mph, metal banging from underneath would randomly come and go. Of course when finally turning into the driveway there were all sorts of metal noises but I gingerly made it back to the drive way.

Where do I begin figuring out what is busted? Is it the gear box? the rear differential? The propeller? Can the inner front axle had a part in this? Perhaps the two problems are exclusive of each other and I just had a rotten day? The universal is intact as I can see and nothing is hanging out from the bottom.

When the noise occurred it sounded/felt as if something was dragging on the ground but when I looked there was nothing there. Also, the front drive shaft spins back and forth a little bit hen I crawl underneath and start twisting it with my hands. The rear drive shaft seems locked in place and won't give. Maybe that is normal?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old May 5th, 2015, 09:31 AM
Jonesy's Avatar
Jonesy
Status: Offline
Craig
87 D110 (Ruby)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,445
Registry
First it sounded like CV joints....and Axles - be my first guess what broke
__________________
"The difference between stupidity and genius, is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old May 5th, 2015, 09:41 AM
the rover shop
Status: Offline
shayne young
89,93 & 95 camel trophy 110s 06 130
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ft lauderdale florida
Posts: 5,225
With the truck on level ground and no park brake applied, make sure the truck is out of diff lock..transfer lever to the right.. If you can spin the front driveshaft then your problem is in the front axle.. As Jonesy says.. Sounds like front axle/cv joint..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old May 5th, 2015, 09:46 AM
minch77's Avatar
minch77
Status: Offline
Minch
1997/Defender 90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 63
Registry
Thanks for giving me a starting point. Here is a follow up question: If the CV joint or front axle was the issue would the front wheel drive still work? How does the front axel end up knocking out the power being sent to the rear drive? I apologize in advance if that is a stupid question but I am limited in my understanding of the transmission/drive train system.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old May 5th, 2015, 09:51 AM
the rover shop
Status: Offline
shayne young
89,93 & 95 camel trophy 110s 06 130
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ft lauderdale florida
Posts: 5,225
Unless diff lock is engaged it allows the front differential to do its job and doesn't distribute power to both of the wheels because it has no force to react against on the side it is broken on..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old May 5th, 2015, 09:57 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,531
Registry
popped a cv, but something weird about that.

do you have front lockers?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old May 5th, 2015, 10:15 AM
minch77's Avatar
minch77
Status: Offline
Minch
1997/Defender 90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 63
Registry
Yes I have arb air lockers front and back. They were not engaged on the day I lost power.

I had been under the assumption that when I locked the diff I was limping home using the power from the front wheels---I thought the rear axle lost the power. You guys have me changing that up. I just went outside, put it in lock and went 10 feet back and forth in the driveway. If it's locked I can move. How can I confirm that the rear axle is still getting power and not just spinning because the rear wheels are turning?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old May 5th, 2015, 10:23 AM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,237
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by minch77 View Post
How can I confirm that the rear axle is still getting power and not just spinning because the rear wheels are turning?
See above...
Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
With the truck on level ground and no park brake applied, make sure the truck is out of diff lock..transfer lever to the right.. If you can spin the front driveshaft then your problem is in the front axle.. As Jonesy says.. Sounds like front axle/cv joint..
You have a broken CV joint. Do not continue to drive the truck. The broken joint will continue to destroy more parts and it could cause your steering to lock up and kill you.

My "guess". The mechanic forgot to install the circlip on the stub shaft of the CV joint and it moved in an jambed up. That, or it is just a strange coincidence the joint died right after the brake job. You need to get the truck inspected and worked on by another party that knows what they are looking at. Use a tow truck to get it there.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old May 5th, 2015, 11:08 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,531
Registry
sounds to me like the front diff was possibly locked. you'll find out when you see what broke.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old May 5th, 2015, 11:19 AM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,795
Had a vehicle come in with a similar issue.
Was able to jack it up to where both front wheels were off the ground.
Then removed some plugs... don't remember exactly which ones, but think it was the diff filler plug.
Had someone spin one wheel at a time.
Looking through the "hole" left when the plug was removed, I was able to see which shaft was spinning and which shaft was not.
The side that was not spinning was disassembled and the actual shaft found broken.
A whole shaft CV and all was pulled from a low mileage Disco I and installed in the broken 110.
That was more than 5 years ago and the vehicle is still being driven daily.

Easy fix.

You could also have a broken spider gear, but you should see it through the hole with a small flashlight.
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old May 5th, 2015, 12:01 PM
slorocco
Status: Offline
Dan Prasada-Rao
1963, 109 Station Wagon
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Great Mills, MD, USA
Posts: 930
IF you have a front ARB, you could jack the front end up. Then put it in gear, lock the center diff, turn the front ARB on and see which wheel turns or doesn't turn. Or which one makes horrific noises. The sounds you mention sound like what I've heard when I've blown a CV joint apart.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old May 5th, 2015, 12:08 PM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
Doubt that it had anything to do with a locked differential. I've driven on the hard with diffs locked and it is near impossible to turn the steering wheel; tires chirping, scrubbing etc. I.e., you would have known something was up.

As others have said, it's most likely a CV but possibly in the differential itself. But, ARB lockers use a 4 pinion carrier that is unlikely to break the way a stock open diff often does. That said, you can and should drain the differential and see what comes out. Ditto the swivel housings.

Since you have ARB lockers, you can use them to figure out which side of the axle is broken. With the ARB locker engaged, raise each wheel individually and try to turn it. If it turns, that is the side that's broken.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
1991 RRC- never got a name- long since recycled
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old May 6th, 2015, 04:16 PM
hillstrubl's Avatar
hillstrubl
Status: Offline
Danny
2005 Disco 3
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Philly, USA
Posts: 1,596
Sounds exactly like when I broke my Pass side CV in my D1 after Conclave a few years ago. I agree with the crowd, broken CV is most likely.
__________________
~2005 Disco 3 "Moneypenny"
~2008 GTI TSI
~If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading this in English, thank a Veteran.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old May 7th, 2015, 04:59 PM
sflash868's Avatar
sflash868
Status: Offline
Stephan Laputka
1995 D-90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 972
I think an important question would be what did his mechanic/friend reassemble incorrectly that could lead to a blown CV? Would not replacing the c-clip on the end of the CV cause a failure like this?
__________________
Land Rovers are by far the best looking 4x4 on the back of a flatbed...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old May 7th, 2015, 05:11 PM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,531
Registry
The OP needs to pull the CV and inspect it. All we can do is guess.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old May 9th, 2015, 08:26 AM
minch77's Avatar
minch77
Status: Offline
Minch
1997/Defender 90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 63
Registry
CV JOINT IT IS! I jacked it up and spun the wheel by hand. Driver's side was quiet when being turned. When I turned the passenger side wheel I immediately heard the bits and pieces rolling around. The case holding the bearings was in pieces and came out along with free floating bearings.

Now my questions are: I am poised to buy a new CV joint. Are there any other parts near it that I should also replace as a good measure? Also, I have a 1997 NAS so when I shop for parts, even though it says it fits a 1997 D-90, it doesn't fit. Can anyone tell me the correct part number for 1997 NAS CV Joint? Or are they universal for all models?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old May 9th, 2015, 08:51 AM
Jonesy's Avatar
Jonesy
Status: Offline
Craig
87 D110 (Ruby)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,445
Registry
here is one that works - not genuine, but - CV JOINT DISCOVERY DEFENDER 90 - DISCO I, PLD201, TDJ000010 - Rovers North - Classic Land Rover Parts
__________________
"The difference between stupidity and genius, is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old May 9th, 2015, 09:25 AM
the rover shop
Status: Offline
shayne young
89,93 & 95 camel trophy 110s 06 130
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ft lauderdale florida
Posts: 5,225
And Jonesy to the bloody rescue again....
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old May 9th, 2015, 10:57 AM
Rocky's Avatar
Rocky
Status: Offline
Chris
72 + D1 drivetrain
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colonies Aka Boston
Posts: 8,776
Chalk this up to Rare failure syndrome.
__________________
A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old June 1st, 2015, 04:42 PM
minch77's Avatar
minch77
Status: Offline
Minch
1997/Defender 90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 63
Registry
Red face The Fun Continues...

Since the last post I had the CV joint, half axle, and stub axle on the front passenger side changed. It was all assembled at my friend's shop--not land rover guys--(please excuse this stupidity momentarily while I finish this) and when I took it for a spin I immediately noticed the following:

1. A "whirring" noise is apparent when I hit the gas
2. It felt as if the trans was in a lower gear and the whirring noise got louder as the speed increased
3. when i let off the gas the whirring noise immediately went away and remained so as I coasted down the street
4. As soon as I applied the gas the whirring noise reappeared immediately--it corresponded to applying the gas
5. I can feel a corresponding vibration as I grip the diff shifter
6. It feels as though there is resistance when I apply the gas but not when I coast along

Background: When I blew up the CV joint at slow speed I limped it down the street to my residence where I had it towed to the shop. During my 3 - 5 mph drive home I didn't hear any such "whirring" noise.

Question: With all new parts, is there anything here that sounds like they botched the installation of the new parts? Is it possible they tightened the hub nuts too tight? (Sorry if that is stupid) It just feels as though something is too tight or bound up in the axle.

Next Question: I am sure there is a Defender guy in New Jersey and I will search the forums but if anyone knows right off the bat I would appreciate it. I am tired of dealing with things half-assed and need to get a pro--I just don't want to bring it to an overpriced LR dealer who will extort me.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
problems

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bad Zula Engine and Drive Train Bill Larson Defender Technical Discussions 20 February 14th, 2014 12:21 PM
Looking for a Disco 1 with great drive train Uncle Douglas Wanted 3 February 18th, 2010 09:31 AM
Rolling chassis with drive train $1000 bitz The Flea Market 0 August 12th, 2009 08:48 AM
oil leak(s) coming from my drive train michael15 Defender Technical Discussions 24 September 15th, 2005 10:28 AM
drive train custom mods redrover Misc. Chit-Chat 14 June 11th, 2004 09:08 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:13 AM.


Copyright