Bias Ply vs Radial Tires - toughness? - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old February 27th, 2012, 05:49 PM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Online
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,542
Registry
Bias Ply vs Radial Tires - toughness?

Warning, ignorant newbieness ahead:

So long story short, my Defender with street tires did pretty well at Rausch Creek considering it had 29.5" All-Terrains. The tires were Kumho KL78's which have a 2-ply sidewall.

But after a short trip on a freshly cleared trail - just barely a green - something (either a sharp rock or a chainsawed stump) tore a hole in my sidewall like it was toilet paper. Thanks to Charles, Jeff, Jason, Doug and some other OCC folks, the spare went on (though me being a total idiot, the spare was bald, dry-rotted and leaking air.) Following Jeff, I got the truck home after a highway blowout, a surprise visit from RayG + friend, and a AAA flatbed tow. Fun fun.

I originally got smaller tires because I wanted a tight turning radius without rub and the ability to fit into ridiculously low USG parking garages, but now I'm leaning toward saying "screw it" and going with something that won't behave like American Cheese on the trails.

I understand that some radial tires are pretty tough (KM2s, Interco's trXus MT), but it seems like bias ply tires are generally tougher.

Here's the question - should I even bother with a radial tire when I could buy a bias ply tire instead - just from the perspective of sidewall toughness? I can live with not making up a trail, but I want something that will live through wheeling.

I have a feeling that my fellow NOVA peeps will now respond with "stop being a cheapf***" and just get KM2's , but I'm still curious.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old February 27th, 2012, 06:29 PM
o2batsea's Avatar
o2batsea
Status: Offline
Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kensington md
Posts: 6,503
Registry
Bias ply tires have their fans, but I'm not one of 'em. I just bought both the Goodyear Wrangler MT/R Kevlar for the 109 coiler and a set of Goodyear Wrangler Dura Tracs for the RRC. These are in the 235/85-16 size. Either would be a good choice for your truck.
Both the bias ply and the radial will have nylon side wall construction. However a 4 ply radial sidewall will be far more supple than a bias ply with 4 sidewall plies. They corner better, have better highway handling, give better gas mileage, etc etc. If you have a particular need for a stiff tire, try the bias ply, but I have a feeling that you won't be too happy with them.
__________________
Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 27th, 2012, 06:41 PM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Offline
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,526
Registry
I've seen one other set of those Kuhmos no comment.

235's would be a good fit if you truck is stock, you increase your turning radius and gain a few inches of clearance. BFG Mt's have been very impressive, looking to see how the new MTR's and Duratracs perform

My Classic runs 225/75s, I bang my diffs and steering a little more than in the Defender with 255's. I wouldn't run less than a 235 on a Defender.
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old February 27th, 2012, 06:46 PM
Capt Milks's Avatar
Capt Milks
Status: Offline
Mike
Defender V-8, Defender 2.25
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1,801
Actually most Bias tires will not hold up as well on the trail as a radial trail tire will. The ability of the tire to rap around a rock etc is what you are looking for. In a tire search you will find manufactures playing with the amount of plys in the sidewalls. Most Bias have a two ply sidewall and are very stiff. A lot of the off road radials will have a three ply sidewall. In choosing a trail tire that you also use on the road keep in mind if the tire has sipping, extra cuts in each tread block. This sipping is what helps in the rain and snow giving the tire more biting edges. Off road it might be bad, destabilizing the tread block and making it easier to tear. With that said the Km2's, no sipping, still do very well on the wet roads. Also when you go off road remember to air down. this gives you a larger contact patch.
__________________
Land Rover 110
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 27th, 2012, 07:51 PM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Offline
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,839
Registry
front wheel spacers and adjusting your axle stops can give a tight turning radius even with large tires. I have
34x10.50x15 Tsl bias plys on Wolf/Nato/130 wheels for off road and 285.75.16 Yokohama Geolanders on alloy's for street. The geolanders suck off road and the tsl's suck on road. That said they both excel in their intended purpose. A bias ply tsl @ 10 psi is awesome offroad.
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old February 27th, 2012, 10:29 PM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Bias ply tires have their fans, but I'm not one of 'em. I just bought both the Goodyear Wrangler MT/R Kevlar for the 109 coiler and a set of Goodyear Wrangler Dura Tracs for the RRC. These are in the 235/85-16 size. Either would be a good choice for your truck.
Both the bias ply and the radial will have nylon side wall construction. However a 4 ply radial sidewall will be far more supple than a bias ply with 4 sidewall plies. They corner better, have better highway handling, give better gas mileage, etc etc. If you have a particular need for a stiff tire, try the bias ply, but I have a feeling that you won't be too happy with them.
o2batsea - how do you like the MTR Kevlars? Seriously thinking of going these over KM2's in a 315 size. I'm really thinking with modern tire tech you can get a very good all around tire.

sonoronos - I think a good tire in 235 would work well like rover4x4 said. If you were happy how your truck did with the street tires and are running stock suspension I think they will be a good fit. Put on spacers or a wheel with less backspacing like a Wolf/Nato and your turing radius will be as good as a D90 can be.

I found some pics of a MTR Kevlar flexing - thinking this will show was MC22958 was talking about. Was from this thread on a Hummer board: http://www.hummerxclub.com/forum/vie...12463&p=197654

There are some threads about the MTR Kevlar haven't a stronger sidewall than the KM2 if that is of any help. I think it was on an Arizona Jeep forum.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P5010042.JPG
Views:	236
Size:	414.9 KB
ID:	48373   Click image for larger version

Name:	mtr_flex_1.jpg
Views:	1153
Size:	327.9 KB
ID:	48374  

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 28th, 2012, 08:29 AM
mgreenspan's Avatar
mgreenspan
Status: Offline
Matthew Greenspan
Land Rovers
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Nevada City
Posts: 1,719
Registry
You should just get a different set of wheels and tires for offroading. It takes little time to change a set and then you don't have to sacrifice anything but time before you go hit a trail or go camping.
__________________
Do not read the next sentence.

You little rebel, I like you.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 28th, 2012, 09:09 AM
o2batsea's Avatar
o2batsea
Status: Offline
Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kensington md
Posts: 6,503
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
You should just get a different set of wheels and tires for offroading. It takes little time to change a set and then you don't have to sacrifice anything but time before you go hit a trail or go camping.
No kidding, mud tires wear out quick on pavement.

------ Follow up post added February 28th, 2012 09:14 AM ------

Quote:
o2batsea - how do you like the MTR Kevlars? Seriously thinking of going these over KM2's in a 315 size. I'm really thinking with modern tire tech you can get a very good all around tire.
The MT/Rs are a long way from getting dirty, so I can't offer a review. The Dura Tracs are prolly a better all around tire. Compound not so soft and an almost equally aggressive tread to the MT/R. Slightly cheaper too. I will certainly try to off road on them.
__________________
Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 28th, 2012, 10:07 AM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Online
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,743
Registry
Ed, my advice to you based on your multi-use would be to go with a 235/85-16 (stock size, and what I have on the 110) in either a BFG A/T or BFG KM2. I think you'd be better served by the KM2 as you'll find they're surprisingly comfortable on road, but may cost a tad more.

It isn't going to be cheap, BUT you'll avoid the issues you had at Rausch this weekend. Just my $0.02.

However, it is also worth noting that Ed - and his stock D - did great with the exception of this tire issue at Rausch. As Charles kept saying, it is a testimonial to what a stock Defender is capable of!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8665.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	60.6 KB
ID:	48375   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8669.jpg
Views:	120
Size:	74.7 KB
ID:	48376  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8683.jpg
Views:	120
Size:	68.9 KB
ID:	48377  
__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old February 28th, 2012, 10:23 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Online
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,542
Registry
Jason, I love those pics!! Thanks for posting them up
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old February 28th, 2012, 10:25 AM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Online
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,743
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Jason, I love those pics!! Thanks for posting them up
No problem, don't worry I won't be on "Ed time" getting mine loaded up! Today or tomorrow I plan to get them on Picasa and then upload a monster zip file for download.

Again, nice work on the trails this past weekend!
__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old February 28th, 2012, 10:47 AM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
You should just get a different set of wheels and tires for offroading. It takes little time to change a set and then you don't have to sacrifice anything but time before you go hit a trail or go camping.
This is a good approach, but requires space to store the other set, and is also significantly more expensive. I'm pretty sure the space issue will be a problem for Ed.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I'm here for the D's
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old February 28th, 2012, 10:59 AM
Naplm00
Status: Online
Matthew
1983 110 200tdi 3 door soft top
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 2,865
The BFG all terrain are the tire to beat for on road manners and light to medium offroading. they are radial, tough offroad and last forever on road.

If you want a long lasting mud specific tire I had the Mickey Thompson baja claw radial on my 1996 F150 for over 50k

not my truck http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...0009_large.jpg

unfortunately they suck on ice unless you get them siped
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old February 28th, 2012, 11:31 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Online
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,542
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
I'm pretty sure the space issue will be a problem for Ed.
Charles is right, I am not in a position to store multiple sets of tires or change them frequently.

I'm honestly not concerned too much about traction. I figure as long as the tires have average traction, I should be fine. What I learned at Rausch was that technique and the right line pretty much makes or breaks a run. At the worst, I just go around the bypass.

I have realized that once the spare tire goes on, my wheeling is over for the weekend. Because the only thing left after the spare goes is a flatbed ride back home, which is not cheap. So what I want is a tire that can take serious abuse to the sidewalls, especially when aired down. I'm honestly very suspicious of some of the manly looking radial tires out there. They just look to me like typical street tires with "off-road-looking" treads molded around the circumference.

You can see just how flat my tires look going down the hill. That's aired down to between 13-18psi. I'm pretty sure that folded sidewall is part of the reason that I tore my tire. Doug told me that he even saw my tire almost come off the bead earlier and that was while I was driving to the trail. That picture of the aired-down jeep tire is pretty much what I would like to avoid.

Mud seems to vary from somewhere between "brown colored water" and "glue" and I purposely avoid all varieties. I know some people can't resist mud, but I am not one of them. I am solely concerned about rock and sharp objects.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old February 28th, 2012, 01:13 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Yeah you did very well on those clown tires, so clearly some driver credit needs to be given. Get whatever tread makes you happy at the stock size, with a stronger sidewall (and buy 5 ).

I think you should use pic #3 for you avatar.

charles
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I'm here for the D's
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old February 28th, 2012, 01:27 PM
jefhuf's Avatar
jefhuf
Status: Offline
Jeff Huff
'94 D90 ST #655
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Haymarket, VA
Posts: 1,660
Registry
You could also use this photo for your avatar if you prefer!

FWIW, I ran blues and blacks all day at Rausch on a set of 285/75 BFG AT's behind Trevor and Charles with little more than some spotting and the usual rock stacking. And also, the fold of that MTR is what you want!

------ Follow up post added February 28th, 2012 01:29 PM ------

was trying to load the pic of your truck on the flatbed but for not working right now
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old February 28th, 2012, 01:58 PM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Online
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,743
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefhuf View Post
You could also use this photo for your avatar if you prefer!

FWIW, I ran blues and blacks all day at Rausch on a set of 285/75 BFG AT's behind Trevor and Charles with little more than some spotting and the usual rock stacking. And also, the fold of that MTR is what you want!

------ Follow up post added February 28th, 2012 01:29 PM ------

was trying to load the pic of your truck on the flatbed but for not working right now
This:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1238.jpg
Views:	139
Size:	180.0 KB
ID:	48383   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1239.jpg
Views:	99
Size:	72.4 KB
ID:	48384  

__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old February 28th, 2012, 02:19 PM
jefhuf's Avatar
jefhuf
Status: Offline
Jeff Huff
'94 D90 ST #655
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Haymarket, VA
Posts: 1,660
Registry
yes, thanks! not sure if it was forum or my network related but glad Ed could enjoy them either way!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old February 28th, 2012, 04:50 PM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Online
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,743
Registry
Here's a good justification to get the KM2's. Doug is sort of my new hero . I think you could fit a small bus under his wheel.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8860.jpg
Views:	130
Size:	118.5 KB
ID:	48391  
__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old February 28th, 2012, 05:00 PM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Online
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,542
Registry
There's something epic about Doug's disco when it climbs over stuff. I think it's because it's such a crazy tall truck - and all the air he gets
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
tire, tires

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tires: an odessy souza Misc. Chit-Chat 37 December 14th, 2009 05:57 AM
Tires, Tires, Tires Joe P Misc. Chit-Chat 28 August 9th, 2005 09:58 PM
Maxxis Buckshot Radial Mudders tuko Defender Technical Discussions 0 March 26th, 2005 07:38 AM
110 steel wheels and tires artm For Sale - Parts 3 January 21st, 2005 09:06 PM
BFG AT Ko tires for sale Seriesman For Sale - Parts 6 August 18th, 2004 11:09 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:47 PM.


Copyright