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  #1  
Old December 8th, 2013, 03:06 PM
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Im patiently waiting for a good turn key GM or Ford 3.2 engine transplant solution for my '97 NAS. But the 90 is refusing to cooperate; I think the longer daily drives with grade, altitude, and the sludge is really taking its toll in the 165k 4.0. Current symptoms are intermittent loss of power and intermittent ticking. There is always a lot of crud covering the oil intake; ticking is most likely from the valvetrain from oil starvation. Other than that, I believe the block to be fine with no overheating issues. I guess I could be noise from the cam/bearings as well.

So what would you do? Would a head replacement, head gasket kit, front end, and bolts work or would you suggest pulling the block as well? I understand without getting hands on the engine, answers will vary and after pulling the heads, I may open up a whole new can of worms. Guess Im looking for the most economical, bolt on in the garage in a weekend, solution. Also rather not take a chance on a "good running 4.0" from a friend of a friend or eBay.
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  #2  
Old December 8th, 2013, 03:15 PM
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Dump a quart of ATF in the oil and change the filter every few hundred miles until you get the sludge out. Clean out the oil pick up in the pan. I would not pull the heads unless they were leaking. You can also clean out under the valve covers and what is a huge cause of sludge is a bad PCV system. Ticking is probably rockers, not the cam, but no way to know for sure.
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  #3  
Old December 8th, 2013, 03:21 PM
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Just me, but I would re-build the NAS. It is a easy motor to fix. If you wait too long you may slip a liner and by by block.
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  #4  
Old December 8th, 2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Dump a quart of ATF in the oil and change the filter every few hundred miles until you get the sludge out. Clean out the oil pick up in the pan. I would not pull the heads unless they were leaking. You can also clean out under the valve covers and what is a huge cause of sludge is a bad PCV system. Ticking is probably rockers, not the cam, but no way to know for sure.
Ok, Ill give it a shot. Any ole ATF work? PCV kit was replaced 10k ago...probably for the first time. Thanks

------ Follow up post added December 8th, 2013 01:45 PM ------
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Just me, but I would re-build the NAS. It is a easy motor to fix. If you wait too long you may slip a liner and by by block.
Rather not go that far.
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  #5  
Old December 8th, 2013, 04:20 PM
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Time for 4.6 and you will be happy with the acceleration!

Sal
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  #6  
Old December 8th, 2013, 04:57 PM
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Any fresh ATF. One quart as part if an oil change, plus, filter. Change out after 500 miles. Keep to 3k oil changes after that.
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  #7  
Old December 8th, 2013, 05:45 PM
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Rockers are a source of noise, as are catalysts. But we see worn pistons more and more as the miles pile up and these trucks get old. Still, with new rings and bearings the motors can go a long way, provided the noise does not bother you too much
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  #8  
Old December 8th, 2013, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robisonservice View Post
Rockers are a source of noise, as are catalysts. But we see worn pistons more and more as the miles pile up and these trucks get old. Still, with new rings and bearings the motors can go a long way, provided the noise does not bother you too much
I guess its the noise coupled with the loss of power (and not wanting to rev the engine at that point) that scares me. Loud Ticking comes and goes every 30 miles or so and seems to originate from the top end. I just dont want to kill the engine right now, nor do a full rebuild. Definitely not an exhaust tick.

Ill try additives and frequent oil/filter changes and see where I get. Im using Amsoil but I wonder if I should go dino. Im about to do all seals/gaskets on the top and front of her this Christmas with new water pump, timing, etc.
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  #9  
Old December 8th, 2013, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Dump a quart of ATF in the oil and change the filter every few hundred miles until you get the sludge out. Clean out the oil pick up in the pan. I would not pull the heads unless they were leaking. You can also clean out under the valve covers and what is a huge cause of sludge is a bad PCV system. Ticking is probably rockers, not the cam, but no way to know for sure.
This. I didn't do the ATF but when I pulled the pan and swapped the crucifix seals in my 3.9, the amount of sludge in the pan and oil pickup was enough that I was glad I did it. Not too tough of a job but messy.

I used M1-0W-40 every 3,000 and I tried to change filters every 1,000. I know M1 isn't cheap but the 90 wasn't getting that many miles on it.
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  #10  
Old December 8th, 2013, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
This. I didn't do the ATF but when I pulled the pan and swapped the crucifix seals in my 3.9, the amount of sludge in the pan and oil pickup was enough that I was glad I did it. Not too tough of a job but messy. I used M1-0W-40 every 3,000 and I tried to change filters every 1,000. I know M1 isn't cheap but the 90 wasn't getting that many miles on it.
Yep, am doing that again. If the pickup is gunked over 3 times in a row...I probably have an issue. Right stuff as gasket makes the pan hard to remove...
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  #11  
Old December 8th, 2013, 09:55 PM
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do a compression check on the 4.0.

The wiring for the crank sensor is also vulnerable. You may want to inspect that to make sure it is not causing the engine to cut out. I had this problem on a 96 4.0 Disco and have talked to others who have had similar problems.

last week my 97 Disco developed an awful exhaust leak that throwing a set of gaskets at didn't solve. Compression check verified the worst. No oil or coolant problems.




BTW, this was at 232,000 miles. I'm not the original owner, but the heads were stock height and the exhaust keepers were all present. It is very possible that this is the first time it is being dug in to.
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  #12  
Old December 8th, 2013, 11:53 PM
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Anyone have experience with Cannibal V8 or Great Plains Rovers? Rover engine builders out of Oklahoma; both offer 4.0/4.6 long blocks for under $6k and GPR offers a 3 year warranty and uses parts from Turner UK. Both also do some sort of block sealing.
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  #13  
Old December 9th, 2013, 12:11 AM
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I've got almost 60k on a 4.0 from rover cannibal in one of mine running 3.9 efi, but I think you are getting way ahead of yourself.

My engine was nothing more special than a dealer replacement. It even came with the big green bag over it. Maybe things have changed.
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  #14  
Old December 9th, 2013, 09:11 AM
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Jake K.
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Is the MIL on? Do you have oil pressure issues? The inconsistent loss of power does not normally come from a sludged-up motor otherwise you would have it all the time if it was from that! The ATF trick is great...except for the fact of loosening all that stuff seems to make thing worse sometimes and plan on pulling the pan/pick-up tube and you should think about pulling the valve covers too and clean the shit outta all of it(off of the motor)! Then go back to more frequent oil services. Start easy and go backwards…! Good luck.
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  #15  
Old December 9th, 2013, 09:14 AM
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Your PVC hoses can be new, but the ports going into the Plenum can be clogged. When i pulled mine to change the injectors all of the ports were clogged up.
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  #16  
Old December 9th, 2013, 10:49 AM
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I got ticking and power loss after changing to Rotella. I then had a reputable shop Seafoam and flush with Amsoil...on their own advice. Ive been running Amsoil since. If ATF does the same, Im a bit hesitant.

So plan of action is to clean out oil pan and pickup with oil change every 3k, Might try Marvel Mystery Oil as well. Clean visible crap off heads, under valley pan gasket and ensure vent ports are good. Change filters every 500 miles or so.

MIL on, need to check obviously, and no oil light other than very infrequently at startup.

Would running low octane fuel cause buildup? Thanks for the advice, all.
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  #17  
Old December 9th, 2013, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMac View Post
I got ticking and power loss after changing to Rotella. I then had a reputable shop Seafoam and flush with Amsoil...on their own advice. Ive been running Amsoil since. If ATF does the same, Im a bit hesitant.
.
^this exact thing happened to me. Never going back to Rotella and sticking with Amsoil
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  #18  
Old December 9th, 2013, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owners Manual View Post

USE ONLY UNLEADED FUEL
Octane requirements
ALways use PREMIUM UNLEADED
GASOLINE, with a CLC or AKI octane rating of
90 or 92.

Amsoil and reputable mechanic usually don't go together.
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  #19  
Old December 9th, 2013, 11:48 AM
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He he...lets not get into the oil debate fellas. There are many threads for that one. Just stating what I was using at the time; who knows what other issues there might have been.

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  #20  
Old December 9th, 2013, 11:53 AM
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The fact that you got ticking is because the rotella is cleaning the crap out. Yes, ATF does the same, to a greater degree in fact.
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