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  #21  
Old January 11th, 2005, 02:15 PM
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The oil pump for any serpentine belt Rover (4.0 and 4.6) is different then that of any of the V-belts (3.9s). The 3.9s and driven by the distributer while the 4.0s and 4.6s are crank driven (I think). Unless you have the front cover from a 3.9 on your 4.6, but since yours is already a 97 then I bet it is crank driven. I think your best bet would be to do what Brian said but use a T and splice in to the same spot as the oil pressure sensor that the dummy light is hooked to.
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  #22  
Old January 11th, 2005, 02:46 PM
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Yeah, I checked the parts catalog and see the difference now. On the '97 4.0, the oil pump is built into the front cover, with no spare plugs.
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  #23  
Old January 12th, 2005, 10:02 AM
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Trevor,

probably a not good closing cap-expansion tank?
In a closed cooling system the pressure rises to approx. 1400 mbar.
The boiling point from the cooling fluid rises to approx. 140 degr. Celcius
In the cilinder heads are "spots" were the temperature can go to approx. 120 degr. C.
Is the system under presuure, no problem. Is there no pressure, than you will have a steam bubble.
This results in a greater expansion of the cooling fluid.
The waterpump can pump water and no steam. So your fluid circulation falls off.( now and then)
This causes a chain reaction; steam blows away through the bad sealing, and a short time raising of the temperature.
Maybe you can hear this as well as the sound of air bubbles going up in a pipe.
The plastic radiator "bolt"can cause this problem, replace this one by a copper one with a fiber sealing ring, or the expansion cap sealing OR the cap it self has been wrong mounted once and damaged the bajonet closing system.

Sorry for my bad english, but I hope you understand me
and that it will be of you help!
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  #24  
Old January 31st, 2005, 06:53 PM
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air pocket

I'm wondering if there is an air pocket in the cooling system, how would I bleed the system to remove the bubble? My 90 is heating up to about 250 degrees F, then cools back down to about 220 degrees F. I'm thinking it may be a problem with the expansion tank cap, but not positive.

Thanks,
Chris Walker
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  #25  
Old January 31st, 2005, 06:59 PM
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250 is not good! after it cools some pop the expansion tank cover, then squeeze the top hose on the radiator, if there is air in the system this will force it up and into the tank, so you will hear the "baubles" burping out. I would pressure check, it does sound like a leak in the system.
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  #26  
Old January 31st, 2005, 07:27 PM
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Chris,

If I were you, I'd stop driving the truck immediately. 250 degrees is enough to loosen a cylinder sleeve then your engine is junk.

If your engine is not modified, you shouldn't have this problem. You burp by taking off the small plastic screws from either radiator or top pipe that sticks up above the plenum -- when cold -- and running engine.

DW

Follow-up Post:

What he said. Chris, what year Defender? On the 94s, use the highest point in the system, ie the plastic screw plug that rides on a raised pipe above the plenum, for the burp.
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  #27  
Old February 1st, 2005, 02:00 AM
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air pocket

Mike and Doug, Thanks! Its a 94 with a 4.6 conversion.
This afternoon, before I posted my question, I took the cap off above the plenum, and decided to turn over the engine, thinking that would bleed the air. Of coarse the result was coolant spraying out of the pipe. After reading the thread, and your responses to my question. I checked the expansion tank and it looks low. I don't know if it was low before my little accident though.
Tomorrow I'll add coolant to the expansion tank, then warm and bleed/burp the system out of the top pipe/heater hose above the plenum. Then I'll test drive and see what happens. System seems pressurized because when I took the cap off the expansion tank there was a suction sound as it came off.

Thanks again,

Chris Walker
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  #28  
Old February 1st, 2005, 10:59 AM
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Chris, again, don't drive the truck. This sounds fishy to me. Suction is wrong, imho. High pressure can be a result of a head gasket exhaust leak pumping up the system. Larger engines, greater horsepower make more heat -- tell me I know!!

There is a analysis kit you can get that will tell you if there is exhaust gas getting into the coolant. I'd do that next and report back.

Doug W.
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  #29  
Old February 1st, 2005, 11:48 AM
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Doug,
The 90 is sitting in my driveway till latter today. I'll see if I can pick up a test kit today.
I'm getting sick just thinking about it....

Thanks
Chris
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  #30  
Old February 1st, 2005, 12:11 PM
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Just a silly thought. The conversion didn't change the direction the belt is rotating did it? Still flowing the water in the right direction?

-Hans
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  #31  
Old February 1st, 2005, 12:25 PM
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Worst case scenario is that you ran it hot and blew a head gasket or dropped a sleeve. You might have escaped damage if you are lucky. But then you still have to find out what made it hot before. Was the radiator recored, purged, upgraded with the 4.6 install? Could be the effeciency of the cooling system is not up to par with the engine.

Search 'overheating' on this forum and on the land rover Pirate4X4 forum. You will learn a lot.

Doug W.
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  #32  
Old February 1st, 2005, 09:28 PM
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Hans,

I'm pretty sure the belt is going in the correct direction.

Doug,

A fourth core was added to my stock radiator, when I did the swap. My current mechanic had the radiator out or disconnected when they replaced the power steering hoses and reservoir about a month ago. It ran a little hot on the way home but I ignored it. On a side note, I also ignored the fact that a snap on wrench flew out of my truck and tumbled down the busy road as I left the shop, and latter that day as I poked around the engine bay I found a snap on philips head screw driver. Thats why I suspected air in the system. If they forgot a few of their tools in my truck, then they probably forgot to bleed the air from the system and who knows what else.
Today I topped off the expansion tank and burped the system. let it run to warm up and it got to about 180 degrees F. The hottest it ran tonight was 200 degrees.
Everything sounds fine so far except when I tested for exhaust in the system, the test did not prove positive or negative. The blue test solution turned green instead of yellow, so maybe that means I have a slight exaust leak.
Any thoughts?

thanks,
Chris Walker
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  #33  
Old February 1st, 2005, 10:46 PM
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200 is okay. Even 220 climbing hills is okay in my book, although I'm biting my nails at 210. I don't know what 'green' means on the test. I've pissed a quart of coolant at 235 and shut down on the spot --discovered my ac fan circuit had blown a fuse.

I just put a phat oil cooler on my truck, bypassing the cooler in the radiator. I mounted it on the steering guard -- one of those big aluminum guards. Seemed to help a lot -- I used to get a bit of dieseling on shut down before the cooler install. I sourced the cooler from Jegs -- 7" x 21".

Anyway, 4 row should handle your 4.6 -- most seem to do okay with that from what I've read. Can't imagine what those guys (mechanics) did that changed the cooling. Is your fan clutch working? Just read either here or on pirate about how to test the viscous clutch.

Good luck -- I'd call the test manufacturer and get an interpretation on 'green'.

Doug W.
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  #34  
Old February 1st, 2005, 11:19 PM
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Doug. Did you install a thermostat for the oil cooler? Sometimes they can cool TOO much and that can cause it's own issues. Mocal makes a real nice unit for about $100.

-Hans
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  #35  
Old February 2nd, 2005, 12:34 AM
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No, it was on backorder so didn't get it. Engine coolant runs 175 to 200 here in Los Angeles, so I'm thinking the oil temp range has got to be above that which is fine. Before next winter, or a trip to the snow, I need to put in the thermostat. PermaCool makes one that's reasonable.

Doug W.
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  #36  
Old February 15th, 2005, 11:38 AM
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Has this been rectified? Or is the Rover still over-heating? If so, what was the end resolution? I am curious.
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  #37  
Old February 15th, 2005, 12:57 PM
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Update: my D-90 is still running hot. Still only on long uphills at slow speeds, and worse on hot days. And still for no apparent reason. I have a few leads (thanks everyone for your suggestions) yet to follow up on, especially regarding exhaust back-pressure. Although wouldn't that trigger the Check Engine light? I had the truck at Hornburg Land Rover last week, and all they could find were some anomalous temperature readings from the radiator. So West Coast Rovers went ahead and swapped out the 3-core upgrade for a 2-core build to stock specs. So far, since this problem begun, I've gone from the stock radiator to a 3-core to a 4-core back to a 3-core, and now back to this 2-core. It actually seems to be running LESS hot now, although still gets up into the 220 range on the big long hills.
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  #38  
Old February 15th, 2005, 02:47 PM
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Trevor, just re-read your original thread. Here's an idea: the big change now is that you went from a 4.0 to a 4.6. Based on everything I've read and been through with my 5.0 is that the bigger the displacement the more heat the damn things make. Mike Green of WCB runs a 4.6 and he gets to 220 on climbs as well. I haven't had mine out for a hill climb since the 21 inch oil cooler and 3" exhaust but I'll no doubt be breaking 210 still. At speed, I don't have issues -- it's the slow rock crawls and shelf road climbs in the desert heat that still haunt my future. (Around town now, in this cool weather, Chammy runs between 175 and 190.) I have had the hood stripped and will have louvers cut next week. I took off the plastic shock tower caps and drilled a few 2" holes (under the headlights there is a baffle plate in front of the wheel wells, and also in the wheel wells themselves) to help the engine bay cool down. I'm expecting these air flow solutions to give me the edge I need this coming summer.

Before putting in the 3" exhaust, I had huge backpressure but no engine faults. You could literally hear the air trying to blow the damn pipes off the thing under acceleration. Now I have a 15% power and mileage gain (the first mod I've done that will pay for itself over time). But since I did this change at the same time when I added the 21" oil cooler (together they brought the average running temp down about 10 degrees), I don't know which or if both are responsible for the cooler running.

The saga continues....

Doug W.
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  #39  
Old February 15th, 2005, 04:56 PM
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Ok, I just went back through this thing from the beginning, and I have a couple questions.

1. Cylinder Heads: Were these changed at all? What, if any, work was done on the heads? There might be a blockage somewhere in the heads, or possibly a crack in one of them.

2. Intake Manifold. Not much of a coolant path in there, but worth looking into for a possible blockage of some sort.

3. With a '97 I am assuming you have the automatic. What is your tranny temperature? What color is the tranny fluid? Still have the in-radiator tranny cooler? How many miles on it? Your Tranny might be starting to slip going uphil, causing extra heat which is getting pumped into the radiator and heating up the coolant.

I'd consider possibly adding a remote tranny cooler, preferrably one with an integral fan in a different location than the radiator in your case. As mentioned, a remote oil cooler would help too. Again, if you can, find a place for one with a built-in fan and good airflow. This would give you additioanl cooling capacity. Having 3 heat sources running through one cooling element really isn't an optimal situation for slow driving at heavy engine loads. In my opinion, the tranny cooler would be the more important one in your situation.

Another thought, I've looked briefly into the possiblity of a non-clutch type fan for Defenders. But I haven't had the chance to determine the threading on the water-pump yet. It might help having a solid fan instead of the clutch fan, especially one of the real high flow varients.

-Hans
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  #40  
Old September 21st, 2006, 03:30 PM
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Trevor, I've seen your rig before in Pasadena and we've talked before. Your truck is loaded up with a lot of weight, not to mention the wind drag of all your equiptment and mods. Your truck works a lot harder than most because of this. Hopefully nothing on your drivetrain is binding and causing your truck to overwork itself. Someone mentioned earlier your autotrans might not be up to par. Have that, the t-case, the drive shafts, u-joints, front/rear diffs AND wheel bearings checked thoroughly. Check ALL fluids in those systems, make sure all of your drive train is good with no excessive drag or binding before you start back up on the cooling system again. Good Luck.



Neil
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