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  #1  
Old March 10th, 2005, 03:33 PM
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Peter Sherman
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Anyone do this?

gbrovers@aol.com[SMTP:gbrovers@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: RE: [D90] Wheel bearing seals

Dave
The advantage of lubricating your wheel bearings with gear oil is more than just a convenience. Gear oil is a better lubricant for this application, wheel bearings will run cooler as a result of less friction (and the gear oil provides some cooling capacity) and hence will last longer. The disadvantage of this arrangement is you have a greater possibility of leaks. Land Rover installed axle case seals in the rear primarily because of warranty issues in the North America market. Here where Rovers are marketed as "up market" vehicles and the minimum price for one is $40,000+, Rover found that these folks don't want drips on their driveways and garages - period!

In Australia where vehicle durability seems to be of a greater concern, removing the rear axle case seals is standard procedure. On the front another thing done is to remove the front axle case seal, the inner swivel housing seal and the outer hub seal so that literally gear oil can flow from one set of wheel bearings to the other passing through both swivel assemblies and the diff on the way. To accomplish this effectively you need to overfill the diff by jacking the vehicle up in the front. Unlike engines and transmissions you don't create any problems overfilling diffs (within reason!). The other critically important thing you need to do when you are eliminating axle case seals is to upgrade inner hub seals. Before Rover eliminated axle case seals they had either single or double lip hub seals. When they went to grease in the wheel bearings they down graded the hub seals because it is very easy to seal in wheel bearing grease - it doesn't go anywhere because it doesn't flow! The big problem with this arrangement is that these down graded seals don't seal some things from coming in such as water! In my opinion whether you eliminate the axle case seals or not you should upgrade the inner hub seals to prevent the ingress of nasties into your wheel bearings.

On a related subject - swivel housing grease vs gear oil, I haven't seen a debate in a while on this list about it. Similar to the axle case seal issue it was introduced as a solution to a warranty problem - leaky swivel seals and American driveways and garages, but it was actually an improvement, swivel housing grease is moly-disulfide and you can't get a much better lubricant for this application. If you don't want to eliminate the axle case seal but want better wheel bearing lubrication, eliminate the inner swivel housing and outer hub seal and run your wheel bearings in moly-disulphide. Again it is extremely important to upgrade the inner hub seal when doing this.

Bill
Great Basin Rovers
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  #2  
Old March 10th, 2005, 07:50 PM
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Robert Dassler
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I am running the double lip seals front and rear (RTC3511) and have removed the shaft seals to allow the rear bearings to run in gearoil and the front to run in the Moly CV lube. I have been running this way for about 40K miles. My D90 has over 160K on it and still has all of the original wheel bearings. If you choose to upgrade the seals, make sure you install them the correct way around and to the correct depth (3mm deep, I think). If you don't install them deep enough you will get a false preload reading and destroy the seals.
Rob
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  #3  
Old March 10th, 2005, 09:50 PM
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Peter Sherman
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Rob, thanks! The seal says 4mm. I was wondering if that depth was a total of 4mm including the shoulder? w/o the shoulder the seal is 10mm. [the old seal was almost flush.] SO I need to have 6mm exposed??
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  #4  
Old March 11th, 2005, 12:16 AM
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Robert Dassler
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No, you need to have the body of the seal 4mm below flush to make room for the outer seal and spring.
Rob
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  #5  
Old March 14th, 2005, 01:37 PM
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Mike Hammond
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Gear oil in the wheel bearings is a good thing. 177,000 miles and no failures
Just watch what will happen now - the gremlins will come and mullar everything
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  #6  
Old March 14th, 2005, 03:59 PM
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Peter Sherman
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Mike, do you have the plastic axle flange covers? If so how do you seal them?
Peter
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  #7  
Old March 14th, 2005, 04:12 PM
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John B.
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The plastic covers seal fine. They have been using them long before they started trying to keep oil out of the bearings and splines.

Follow-up Post:

The real problem with grease in the bearings or swivels is that you don't know when the seals go bad. With oil, it leaks and you know they are bad so purposely do not wade the vehicle until they are fixed. With grease, you have no warning, so when you wade, mud gets in and you have a dead vehicle in the middle of a trail somewhere.
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  #8  
Old March 14th, 2005, 04:16 PM
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Peter Sherman
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I am hard headed but I am convinced! I received the wrong seals so I am waiting for the right ones. I have read in the faq section about the install of these seals! I am still unclear on the proper way to install. Lip in or out? Flush or recesseed?
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  #9  
Old March 16th, 2005, 02:38 AM
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Mike Hammond
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As long as the groove that the end cap sits in is clean and the cap undamaged they seal just fine. The seal needs to be recessed so that the outer lip of the seal isn't rubbing on the radius at the base of the stub axle.
If you get it wrong there will be loads of resistance when you try to spin the hub after you've put the new seal in and put it all back together. I always test for free rotation before putting the wheel back on, hope this is clear
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  #10  
Old March 17th, 2005, 05:43 PM
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Mike Hammond
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As feared the gremlins have struck. The plastic axle end cap is leaking on the 110
more seriously the clutch on the 90 has started slipping again Looks like I'll use this as a good reason to drop the gear and transfer boxes and swap the 1.44:1 transfer box for a 1.22:1 box I just happen to have under the work bench in the garage The 1.22 gears seem to work just fine in our 200 tdi discovery and it's a good bit heavier than the 90!
How completely off track is this post
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  #11  
Old March 17th, 2005, 06:51 PM
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Peter Sherman
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Sorry Mike! It is all my fault!
OK whitch way does this go in to the hub? OR am I just stupid!
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  #12  
Old March 17th, 2005, 07:26 PM
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Ryan
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Peter -

The seal goes in with the spring side facing out. Make sure you recess it as others have mentioned above. Otherwise the seal definitely gets damaged (don't ask me how I know).
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  #13  
Old March 17th, 2005, 10:25 PM
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Peter Sherman
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There are 2 springs & that is what had me! I wanted to make sure.Thanks to all!
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  #14  
Old March 18th, 2005, 02:32 AM
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Mike Hammond
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The way up the seal is in the photo is the face that goes on the outside.
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