Anyone convert D90 to E85? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old June 17th, 2006, 05:40 PM
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Roben Taglienti
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Anyone convert D90 to E85?

I have been researching E85 conversions which seems to be straight forward and there seems to be alot of products/ asistance out there. Other then findind a station - I'm in Naples FL and the closet station is Cape Canaveral!
Anyone out there contemplatng a conversion?

Regrads,
Roben Taglienti
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  #2  
Old June 17th, 2006, 06:28 PM
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I haven't looked into it yet either, mostly because there is no known E-85 within convenient range for me.

However, I'm not sure if a Defender is the best platform to run E-85 in, due to the mileage. Most likely you will be going into single digit mileage, so if you do a lot of driving it may become very inconvenient to fill up after only 100-120 miles in some cases. If the mileage was higher, and it was more available, I would definitely be considering it.

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Old June 17th, 2006, 10:31 PM
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ok...E-85 is what exactly?
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Old June 17th, 2006, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roverboy
ok...E-85 is what exactly?
http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php
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Old June 18th, 2006, 12:09 AM
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85% ethanol, widely available in some parts of the country. Cheaper per gallon, but also less miles per gallon. Many newer vehicles are compatible with it as well as regular gasoline, but not all.

-Hans
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  #6  
Old June 18th, 2006, 05:32 AM
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why would you want to run ethanol? Its expensive, you get very poor performance and if the cost (both $/oil consumed and environmentally) of its production are taken into consideration it really doesn't make much sense, unless you own large amounts of stock in oil or pesticides.

I've been getting calls to the shop with people complaining about the poor mileage that they have been getting lately which just happened to coincide with the 10% ethanol blend that is widely used but not really advertised (tiny "legal" stickers on the pump) showing up at local stations.

Anyway..to answer the question...haven't tried converting anything to it.
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Old June 18th, 2006, 10:16 AM
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Hey Roben, why don't you just buy my 300 Tdi instead.
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Old June 18th, 2006, 12:25 PM
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ethanol comes from corn that needs fertilizer and to be plowed by big diesal tractors that need a farmer in a big 3500HD chevy to operate. then it needs harvest by a big combine that breaks down often uses a lot of fuel etc. then its gonna be transported refined. the only thing good about ethanal is helping farmers. bottom line being conservative is the only way to save fossil fuels gotta have em and use them just dont abuse it. or something like that....
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Old June 18th, 2006, 01:21 PM
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Actually, Corn is just one source for ethanol. Just about any plant matter can be used to make it. Including things like the chaff leftover from wheat, cornstalks, grasses, and many other things that are considered to be waste matter.

I know a lot of people out in the midwest that run it almost exclusively in gas powered vehicles, as it does come out cheaper in cost per mile than gasoline and the prices are more stable. Many of them also run diesel powered vehicles on E95, or biodiesel.

-Hans
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Old June 18th, 2006, 09:32 PM
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Just for accuracy's sake, ethanol is NOT cheaper than gasoline. We taxpayers are paying for it 3 times: once for the farm subsidies, once again for a hefty 51-cent-per-gallon ethanol subsidy, then again we pay for it at the pump. Two recent studies, one by Cornell University and another by UC Berkeley, state that it takes up to 29% MORE energy to produce ethanol than what we get out of it. Unless some factors change, ethanol is not an economically prudent alternate to gasoline. Despite the scientific evidence, the power of the ag lobby and the ignorance of Congress on the true issues makes ethanol a fuel we must deal with, but I sure as heck do not want to rush out to put it in my D-90 (or anything else for that matter) until I have no other choice.
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Old June 19th, 2006, 07:12 AM
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The environmental impacts are pretty hefty as well, it ain't the cleanest thing to produce. It also takes corn (or whatever else you make it out of) off the market for other uses. If you see chicken prices going up, you know why.
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Old June 19th, 2006, 09:30 AM
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Political and Enviromental debates aside:
From what I have read about it to run E-85 you'll need to switch to a carb, not EFI. The Rover 14CUX EFI system in a US Defender (1993-1995) won't be able to support E-85. You can install a carb and set it all up to run E-85, but you'll ONLY be able to run E-85, it won't be flex-fuel (both gasoline and E-85) like a new flex-fuel car from GM.
Hope that helps.
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  #13  
Old June 25th, 2008, 11:23 PM
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To revisit this...just them mechanis of the conversion, not the pros and cons of E85 and the politics.

Anyone done this conversion and is there a way to run it as a flex-fuel vehicle? I have read somewhere that the E85 eats hoses/rubber components so would just changing to a carb (what Mike said) be enough to make the car run on E85? Would you need to upgrade to SS fuel lines and what else would need to be changed in the engine.

Alex
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Old June 26th, 2008, 12:29 AM
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E85

Greetings from where they sell E-85 at every pump, Minnesota.

All political issues aside.

The only thing, reality based, is what this farmer at the local gas station was telling me. he had basically come to town with his mini-van from his fields with a bunch of literature and kind of set up a promotional shop. He mentioned he ran his non "flexfuel" dodge caravan on straight e85. He than opened up the hood and showed me th modifications. There was this little whole in his intake hose where he used to squirt his starting fluid in to start his EFI mini-van. he mentioned it was slightly slower and needed a little help starting but once running it was fine. he suggested I use a 50/50 blend between it and regular gas.

Read between the lines though.

Slightly slower?? he's used to driving a tractor, it could be way slower.

Uses starting fluid to start it? not the greatest for the environment.

he's a farmer, and if you've every met one you'll know they can make anything run with bailing twine and bubble gum.

I'd imagine it was slightly self promoting as he grew the stuff as well.

My personal take is, that yes I'm sure I could get my d-90 to sputter along on the stuff at some % blend. You, however, do not get better fuel economy It actually costs more to run, even with the government's subsidized cost offset. the big difference between flex-fuel and regular vehicles running e-85, as mentioned, it is highly corrosive. just to get it around the US you have to truck it, the regular oil pipes already laid can't even be used. I'm sure your 14cux conputer isn't really up to the task either.

I honestly don't know anybody who runs the stuff. I've got plenty of friends who have compatible vehicles but once they figure it doesn't get any better MPG they quite. I should also note I live in the city and I'd be pretty sure in the farm lands they use it! but it effects them economically as they grow corn.

lastly, the good side? we're starting as a nation to think of new, or alternative fuels. there will be no real silver bullet for everything but I see us using several different fuels now instead of mostly gas/diesel. If you really dig into the E85 stuff I think Brazil uses mostly E85 and diesel. course they they make it by growing sugarcane which is gives you much more fuel per pound of vegetation grown. unfortunately other than Florida sugar cane is hard to grow in the US. there are however, some grasses that produce higher amounts than corn as well and that is what we're steering towards. so possibly by 2010 or 2011 when the government subsidies expire we might have enough infrastructure built up to accommodate new profitable crops. If not, I'm sure they will renew them.

Until than I'm going diesel! " Pendy, Pendy? where did that crazy TDI guy go?"

-Gustaf

ps National Geographic has had some great in depth stories about the stuff in the last few years
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  #15  
Old June 26th, 2008, 10:29 AM
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One other thing not mentioned politically here is that with the advent of using crops for fuel the cost of crops has risen. This has made it even harder for people in countries with low income to afford food (ie: africa where atarvation is on the rise again). Brazilians are again clear cutting their rain forest to make room for growing these crops for fuel. The environmental impact of biofuels like E85 is more than likely worse for the environment since we are cutting trees to grow these crops. It seems like common sense but the problem with common sense is that it isn't all that common.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdmccallum
It seems like common sense but the problem with common sense is that it isn't all that common.
Now I don't know if I have ever heard a truer statement than that!
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Old June 26th, 2008, 11:26 AM
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The folks at PBS Motorweek (Guss's Garage) discussed this very topic...good video:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/12...e-impractical/
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Old June 26th, 2008, 12:02 PM
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What nobody has mentioned that is a serious problem for a Rover is the damage that Ethanol does to aluminum. The govt. has made E10 (the crappy fuel you get at most pumps now) pretty much the standard and supposedly 10% doesn't do significant damage to aluminum or other parts. I personally don't agree and will actually drive the extra few miles to the stations that pump good old dino based fuel. The thought of doing damage my Rover engines by converting to a biofuel with lower fuel density that ends up doing more damage to the environment and increases food prices is ludicris.

Here is a link regarding the use of E10 in marine engines which lots of time seems about right for my rovers. http://www.evinrude-parts.com/boat_e...recaution.html

Write to your congressmen and tell them to stop subsidizing biofuel that does not provide any real benefit and to start supporting research for real sustainable fuel alternatives.

S-P
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Old June 26th, 2008, 12:47 PM
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Two weeks ago, I did a test on E85 with a flex fuel rental car. 21.85 MPG on 87 octane gasoline, 11.45MPG on E85. the price differential was $3.79/gal gasoline v $2.69/gal E85. i.e. E85 was 71% of the cost of gasoline and returned 52% of the mileage . In each case it was one full tank (22gal) and virtually identical mix of driving. IMO E85 is a boondoggle.
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Old June 28th, 2008, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnrvrs
IMO E85 is a boondoggle.
You're exactly right. Congress is going to take the side of whatever they believe is popular (i.e., will get them reelected and keep them in "power." - That's sort of a funny notion, isn't it? They have redefined "public servant" to mean "the public is my servant") The older I get, the more convinced I am that I cannot rely on my government to do what's best for me and the other "commoners." When you really think about that, that's a hell of a note, isn't it? My observation is, all they care about is keeping their seat in "the club" (house or senate - intentionally not capitalized). This country is run in a way that's most beneficial to about 550 or so people (house, senate, pres., vice pres., etc.), not what's best for the country..................sorry for taking this thread somewhat off-topic. However, when the subject of something as preposterous as ethanol-blended fuel comes up, I think it's all of our responsibility to stand up and call BS!

Ok, back to the regularly-scheduled programming........................
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