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  #1  
Old September 14th, 2014, 03:53 PM
RickM
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Rick Mabus
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Another won't start/frustrated DIY'er.

Hey guys. I have been pinging around other threads on this but I'm at a new level of I need help.

My 95 d-90 with a 3.9 engine had been running really well the past couple of years after chasing a ton of bad idle, dying issues. Did all the stepper type stuff on that. I was driving down the road and it just died. Tried to throw it in second and pop the clutch and nothing. Got it home and replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, and relays. I just got it all back together and went to start it. When I turn the truck on ( no crank), I don't hear anything. I then try to crank it and it simply cranks and won't start. I did look at the computer when it first died and I was getting an 03 code. This is frustrating as all get out. I'm a shade tree do it yourselfer. Have not checked fuel pressure, or spark. Not entirely sure how to. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

NEW
So I just went out and tried to crank it again. Still nothing. Then I pulled the line on my fuel filter to see if my lines got pressurized and not a single drop of gas came out. Is there a fuse other than the relays for a fuel pump? I will try and also find the fuel rollover cutoff switch as well.
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  #2  
Old September 14th, 2014, 04:01 PM
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First the horses then the zebras.
Did you rule out the ignition switch?
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  #3  
Old September 14th, 2014, 04:47 PM
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Jason England
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Roll over cut out is important .... then remove passenger seat and cover so you can feel the fuel pump relay ... it should click on for a about a second when you turn the ignition key to position 2.

At the same time the fuel pump should spin up but only for a moment. The fuel pump doesn't run full time until the engine starts and thats controlled by a wire from the coil to the ecu ...

Check the white wire into the back of the alternator ... it's easily dislodged and that will cause a non-start. Check all the wires on the bottom of the coil are in good condition and connected.

I imagine you already googled the 03 code and know exactly what it is ... but on the off chance you didnt ... it means data is corrupted. Disconnect the battery for a moment to reset it and try starting again.

Check the hoses are in decent condition ... especially the big fat hose between plenum and MAF. This can be loose and prevent starting.


Read this ..

http://p38arover.com/rover/p38a/Engi...UX_Systems.pdf
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  #4  
Old September 14th, 2014, 04:49 PM
RickM
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Rick Mabus
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Man I'm an idiot. I think it was neither the horses or zebras.

Captain obvious that I am, I checked the fuse diagram thinking there was no pump fuse due to the relays. Sure enough. I changed the fuse and the fuel pump was almost louder than my radio.

Edit
Thanks leastonce. Sorry your great, helpful, and long list of information was wasted on a idiot!
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  #5  
Old September 14th, 2014, 09:16 PM
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Oh come on, fuse qualifies as a horse
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  #6  
Old November 15th, 2014, 04:46 PM
RickM
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Rick Mabus
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Well. I'm going tompop in on this again. I have been in and out of problems with this truck lately. I took it to a very reputable mechanic. They fixed it, but then didn't, then fixed it. I have never felt it really fire right up though. Now it has not been driven a ton, but I went out after a really cold week, and it just doesn't want to start. This one is slightly different though. It cramks, acts like it is about to tun but just bumps up every now and again. I am about so frustrated. After chasing the whole stepper stuff this truck had been insanely dependable. Any thoughts?
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  #7  
Old November 15th, 2014, 04:57 PM
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Bill Adams
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The other horse is the ignition amplifier module.
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  #8  
Old November 15th, 2014, 05:45 PM
RickM
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Rick Mabus
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Thanks Bill.

I am pretty sure though that they just replaced the ingnition module as well as the coil. That would be the second new version of those in two years. They also replaced the ignition switch. It does give me a terrible gas/chemical smell when try to turn and really sounds like it is so close to catching at times. I guess I am going to contact this local shop again and give them another shot, but I have spent about $1K on it trying to know that I can start it and drive it, but it is just not dependable, and I don't like guessing.
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  #9  
Old November 15th, 2014, 06:56 PM
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Bill Adams
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I have two other possibilities. First is the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail. If that fails, there will be pretty much zero fuel pressure which means no injectors firing. Try turning the key on, and without starting the engine, go around and push open the schraeder valve on the fuel rail quickly to see if there's pressure. To double check that there is no fuel pressure, take off the intake hose at the plenum. Hold the throttle plate open and shoot a two second burst of start fluid into the intake plenum. try to start it. If it fires off (then conks out) you know you have a fuel delivery issue.
Other possibility is that the injectors got crudded up somehow. They have a wee little filter in the top so the injector itself is probably not affected but the filter can't pass fuel. A set of old early 90's Mustang injectors can be swapped in. Same exact ones. They are available by the truckload on fleabay.
Yes there are three filters in the system before fuel gets to the nozzles, so that possibility is awfully remote.
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  #10  
Old November 15th, 2014, 08:58 PM
RickM
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Rick Mabus
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Thanks a ton Bill. I will check all of this tomorrow for sure. I'm having anxieties about electrical gremlins but this will really is solve it to plumbing or electrical.

Bill. You are always generous with your ideas/wisdom which is incredibly helpful for shade tree hacks like me.
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  #11  
Old November 23rd, 2014, 09:07 PM
RickM
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Rick Mabus
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Ok, pretty sure this is an electrical issue. Couple things. One. There is a large strap connected to the base of the coil. Braided flat wire with a rubber casing. It also appears to be connected to the back of the engine block on the drivers side. That "wire" has been hitting the exhaust manifold and has what appears to be a ton of corrosion on it.

You can barely see it but the light is shining on the burned casing and what appears to be corrosion on the wire.


Lastly there is a little capacitor looking thing next to my coil. That cap has a wire coming out of it. That wire is not connected to anything. The coil pack is newly replaced by my local shop btw.
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  #12  
Old November 24th, 2014, 08:07 AM
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J. Michael McCaig
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That braided wire is a ground strap. Mine is connected from the engine to the chassis. Can't tell from the photo but the "capacitor thing" may just be a static noise eliminator for the radio and shouldn't effect it running.

A petrol engine needs fuel, spark, and compression to run. assuming you have compression, check for 35psi at the fuel rail (schraeder valve) as it sounds like your fuel pump is running ok. Get a spark tester and check for a good bright blue constant spark at the plugs and work backward from there. Check the color of the spark plugs. Wet looking black color plugs indicate flooding either by no spark or by injectors leaking down after the engine is shut off. As mentioned, ignition modules can give an intermittent spark as well as a cracked distributor cap/rotor.
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  #13  
Old December 8th, 2014, 09:49 AM
RickM
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As was suspecting, it looks like my problem was electrical. I started to do some testing this weekend, and I started pulling all the wires off the coil pack. I tested the pack and it was good. I put the wires back on, and while doing so I noticed some tension on some of the wires. I moved some stuff around a bit and put everything back together. For some odd reason I decided to fire the truck up, and it started immediately. Drove it to get some gas and it started right away again. Not sure what to think, but I am going to look closely at one of the wires that splits off a wire coming from what appears to be an engine block wire, and chase that for a second. I will get pics soon as maybe my trials will help ease someone else's.
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  #14  
Old January 5th, 2015, 02:33 PM
RickM
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I know I am beating everyone down with this, but I am still not there yet, and my truck is rotting away in my garage. I still cannot get it to run under certain circumstances, and I don't trust it right now. Here goes.

When it is warm it starts. When it is cold out, it will crank forever, sputter like it really wants to start but won't. When it does start it will stay running, and drive just fine. It will even re-fire pretty well while running errands. Prior to my issues this summer it would start in an instant regardless of conditions. Now even when it does start , it is a bit hesitant.

Thinks I am wondering.
1. The coil pack. Is it possible that the coil pack is bad, and when it is cold it is simply locked up?
2. A connection between the fuel pump and the coil Ignition Module- The mechanic that looked at it had to rebuild the plug on top of my fuel pump. Is it possible that the cold is giving a wire problems between the coil/ign mod, and the fuel pump? This is troubling to me as I am NOT having issues once it is in fact running.

I really should simply get this to a mechanic to look at it, but I cannot get it out of my garage to even have it towed, without some major pushing and prodding as it is on grass. I have lost some faith in my mechanic, and am a bit tired of paying to fix problems I may not have.
Thanks.
RickM
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  #15  
Old January 5th, 2015, 02:38 PM
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Kevin Keith
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Check the coolant temp sensor… the one to the ecu not the gauge.
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  #16  
Old January 5th, 2015, 02:49 PM
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Steve Maietta
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These problems can be a real PITA to sort out.. I had picked my truck up from the mechanic years ago, "Hey Steve its done come and get it!" and it wouldn't start in the lot!!

Don't give up, just be methodical, the troubleshooting experience is priceless. If it can sit in a garage between troubleshooting sessions at least that is a plus..

~Steve
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  #17  
Old January 5th, 2015, 02:59 PM
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I have had similar problems but they've been intermittent. In cold weather the start can be weak and slow to catch. In warm weather the idle after start can drop below 500 rpms and then surge to 1000. If I cut the engine off and restart it resets and runs fine. I thinking it might be corroded ECU. Next time a decent one pops up I'll probably grab it as a spare.

Clay
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  #18  
Old January 5th, 2015, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
I have had similar problems but they've been intermittent. In cold weather the start can be weak and slow to catch. In warm weather the idle after start can drop below 500 rpms and then surge to 1000. If I cut the engine off and restart it resets and runs fine. I thinking it might be corroded ECU. Next time a decent one pops up I'll probably grab it as a spare.

Clay
The horse in this situation would be sticky air idle control valve.

A unicorn / zebra hybrid would be corroded ECU.
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  #19  
Old January 5th, 2015, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
The horse in this situation would be sticky air idle control valve. A unicorn / zebra hybrid would be corroded ECU.
Thanks it's worth a try.
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  #20  
Old January 5th, 2015, 08:15 PM
RickM
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Thanks everyone. I will get on it and report back.
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