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  #1  
Old August 28th, 2007, 11:52 PM
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Mike
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Another Suspension Question

I don't see were this has been addressed so I will ask.

I have a OME suspension setup with 751 springs up front and 2 rubberized spring isolators and the 764's in the rear with 1 isolator to balance the ride out and give me about 2.5 - 3 in lift.. I also have the Expeditionware shock mounts which lower the shocks about 2" and I'm running the OME N115's up front and N44's in the rear.

So my question is. Does the lower shock mounts compress my shocks too much therefore my shocks don't have enough compression left for upward movement.
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  #2  
Old August 29th, 2007, 12:17 AM
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Really? Another suspension question?

Take a tape measure and measure the travel in the shock, then measure the travel between your axle and bump stop. If the travel on the shock shaft is the same or less than the bumpstop measurement, your in trouble.

But you know how I feel about lowering the shock mounts, it's tarded. Not full blown retarded, but definitely tarded.
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  #3  
Old August 29th, 2007, 01:04 PM
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Thanks Buck.

I'll do that and then I'm sure I'll have another "tarded" question for you.
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  #4  
Old August 30th, 2007, 04:10 AM
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There are no tarded questions....
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  #5  
Old August 30th, 2007, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
There are no tarded questions....
Just tarded people, I'm sure.

I measured the travel and everything seems to be just right.

Thanks
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  #6  
Old August 30th, 2007, 11:57 AM
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Cool. Cheers
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  #7  
Old August 30th, 2007, 09:20 PM
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Trying not to be 'tarded', but a question for you, Buck, and your suspension expertise. If I want to get more flex out of my front suspension without going to a 3-link what are my options?

Thanks.

Mark
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  #8  
Old August 30th, 2007, 09:51 PM
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Don't say lower your shock mounts. lol

Follow-up Post:

Don't say lower your shock mounts. lol
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  #9  
Old August 30th, 2007, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxcart13
Trying not to be 'tarded', but a question for you, Buck, and your suspension expertise. If I want to get more flex out of my front suspension without going to a 3-link what are my options?

Thanks.

Mark
The radius arms bind up on the axle end. You can put in slotted bushings at the axle end and get more flex that way. I have heard positives and negatives. You can also lessen the distance between the radius arm bolts by fabbing something. Other than that, there isn't too much without more mods. Just make sure the shocks have enough travel. Good luck.
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  #10  
Old August 31st, 2007, 08:38 AM
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Question:

I have seen trailing arms with heim joints instead of the typical bushing through the frame seat set up. Could you do a similar thing with the radius arms? I don't think a heim would take the abuse but could you fab a larger stronger version to increase drop in the front.

Thoughts?

See I didn't even mention shock mounts!
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  #11  
Old August 31st, 2007, 09:29 AM
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Thanks, Buck. I understood the issue was with the radius arms, but always thought it was the bushing at the frame end, not the bushings on the axle end. Sounds like using franked front radius arms and longer shocks to get a few inches of travel is not worth it.
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  #12  
Old August 31st, 2007, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxcart13
Thanks, Buck. I understood the issue was with the radius arms, but always thought it was the bushing at the frame end, not the bushings on the axle end. Sounds like using franked front radius arms and longer shocks to get a few inches of travel is not worth it.
The real limiting factor in cross axle articulation is not the radius arm to frame bushing bind (though it does come into play eventually) but the radius arm to axle bushings. You can alleviate this binding significantly with the slotted bushings that buck mentioned (photo below). This seems like a good place to start, since it is relatively cheap, and easily reversible, with pretty well documented success in increasing articulation. Down side is that many report considerably increased body roll when cornering and short life when used on the street. I also seem to find them difficult to get in the US. More reading Here , Here and Here

Articulated (Hinged/Pinned radius arms were popular for a short time (photos also below), courtesy of the old Bronco crowd (Quinn Dusenberry), but have largely faded from popularity due to (what many have reported to be) some less than desirable roll characteristics under power when climbing. You would use one, and pull the pin when off road, pin when on road.

And of course there is the Safari Gard 3-Link . Probably the ultimate in increasing articulation in the front end, but quite costly, and some still maintain that it is not a safe on road product (I neither support nor disagree with this opinion, I am just passing on the long debate). It definitely works though, and if you are after the ultimate in off road articulation above all else it is probably the way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by landrovered
Question:

I have seen trailing arms with heim joints instead of the typical bushing through the frame seat set up. Could you do a similar thing with the radius arms? I don't think a heim would take the abuse but could you fab a larger stronger version to increase drop in the front.

Thoughts?

See I didn't even mention shock mounts!
No real gain to be had, since the bushing bind in the frame to radius arm bushing has less effect then the bind at the axle to radius arm bushing. John at Rover Tym had fabbed up some experimental radius arms several years back, replacing the axle to radius arm bushings with heims, but he told me that there was very little gain, and more problems than it was worth, and he scrapped the project as a result. I wish I could find the photo..
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  #13  
Old August 31st, 2007, 10:44 AM
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Great Info

Thanks!
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  #14  
Old August 31st, 2007, 02:10 PM
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Hey Buck,

Now you have started my mind to thinking.

I'm curious as to why you aren't very fond of the lowered shock mounts. And I think I may be on to it. Is it because while the articulation may improve, the travel will actually deminish? So therefore, the wheel will not stuff into the wheel well as far. This will impair RTI (ramp results) since the ass won't squat down as far. But is this noticed on the trail? We all know that RTI results are a crude way of measuring articulation since you can pull up the opposite rear wheel to increase your score but it won't help as much on the trail.
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  #15  
Old August 31st, 2007, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepeytr
John at Rover Tym had fabbed up some experimental radius arms several years back, replacing the axle to radius arm bushings with heims, but he told me that there was very little gain, and more problems than it was worth, and he scrapped the project as a result. I wish I could find the photo..
Ah ha, it is still on the RoverTym site (on the heim jointed rear links page ). It is in the upper left hand corner of the top photo. I cropped the arm out and enlarged it a bit, and attached it below...
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  #16  
Old August 31st, 2007, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxcart13
Thanks, Buck. I understood the issue was with the radius arms, but always thought it was the bushing at the frame end, not the bushings on the axle end. Sounds like using franked front radius arms and longer shocks to get a few inches of travel is not worth it.
I also thought the bushing issue came frome the frame end. It seems to be the most stressed angle.
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  #17  
Old September 1st, 2007, 10:09 AM
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I lowered my shock mounts figuring that the bigger tires could not stuff up as far anyway so the stock mount would no be utilized as well. Now with my lowered mounts, the tire just rubs slightly in wheel well and the shock is almost fully compressed. has about an inch left to go.
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  #18  
Old September 1st, 2007, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflash868
I lowered my shock mounts figuring that the bigger tires could not stuff up as far anyway so the stock mount would no be utilized as well. Now with my lowered mounts, the tire just rubs slightly in wheel well and the shock is almost fully compressed. has about an inch left to go.
What size tires?
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  #19  
Old September 1st, 2007, 06:48 PM
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Since you have all made it to this step how did you address your driveline vibrations? My truck was in the shop for nearly two months, I thought it was a once reputable shop I have changed my mind....
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  #20  
Old September 1st, 2007, 07:45 PM
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What vibrations? I have LR HD springs and a 1" spacer in the rear. The only vibration I've had in my driveline is when I dented the rear driveshaft tube on a rock.
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