Another Snapped Timing Belt - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old October 5th, 2012, 03:55 PM
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Neill Thornton
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Another Snapped Timing Belt

Well, I guess rather than piling on to Julien's thread I figured I would start my own.

Just got done removing all the cooling system bodges that threatened our big Alaska trip last year, going back to stock.

Since I had everything apart, I decided to change the timing belt since it had an unknown number of miles on it. When I had pulled off the front cover it looked pretty good and I almost left it alone, but decided to change it anyway so I had a known starting point on the clock.

Went by the numbers in the tech manual, everything looked fine. It was running great the last couple of days, but then unexpectedly this morning as I was getting ready to get off of the 15 I got a bang, loss of power, and a crapton of smoke. Pulled over immediately, but the engine had already died.



I've got it back into the shop, I am thinking the easist thing to do is remove the injector pump cover and see if it turns when I bump the starter. If not, then I know what happened.

Then I get to decide where to go from here. If I hadn't just blown a crapton of money on the LR3 I would be considering a new engine. I am so sick of this freaking thing.
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  #2  
Old October 5th, 2012, 04:05 PM
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damn. you are having some bad luck!
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Old October 5th, 2012, 04:14 PM
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Neill Thornton
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Well, the plot thickens. I went over and turned the crank with a breaker bar and socket, and the injector pump drive gear is turning. Now things get interesting.

I wonder if I jumped a tooth on something?

Would a blown turbo have stopped the engine?

Edit: I am going to put the timing pins in and see if things line up as they should.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 04:23 PM
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Have you tried starting it? I would check the timing first if you haven't.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 04:26 PM
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Neill Thornton
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No, didn't try starting it yet. All i've done is moved the engine to Cyl 1 TDC to insert the fuel timing pin, and I'm about to try and insert the flywheel pin and see if it lines up.

I am pretty sure I heard crunchy rubber sounds come out of the timing case, so I think I know what happened... just dreading pulling it all apart since I *just* put it all back together.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 04:45 PM
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Well, both the fuel pump and valves are moving. I can't tell if they are timed right without pulling the front cover.

Ugh.
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  #7  
Old October 5th, 2012, 04:50 PM
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At the top you say "loss of power". So it still ran and had some power? If the belt breaks, there is no running... You never tried restarting? If not, I do not know why. 100% of all possible damaged happened in the first half second.

If it is just down on power, it is probably the turbo based on your description. Pull the intake hose and see if it turns.
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  #8  
Old October 6th, 2012, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
... as I was getting ready to get off of the 15 I got a bang, loss of power, and a crapton of smoke. Pulled over immediately, but the engine had already died.

Not sure if you'd get a load of smoke if the timing belt let go after all fuel stops going in straight away...banging as the valves/rockers get crunched but then there would be no compression and that's evident if you spin the motor on the starter briefly. As Red90 said - the damage is already done so nothing much else is going to happen. Smoke could come from turbo bearings letting go but you'd need the valves to be opening and closing (at least some of them) to pump the air/oil mixture through and out the exhaust

If the valves are moving it's not the timing belt. Is there a small cover in front of the injection pump pulley held on with 3 screws on a 300 tdi? If there is I think you can check the timing/ insert the timing peg through that opening. That might be easier than having to pull the entire front cover.

I too would have a look at the turbo, check the timing and see if it runs in that order.

Good luck, hope the damage doesn't turn out to be too catastrophic.
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  #9  
Old October 6th, 2012, 05:46 AM
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Sorry to hear that, did you check under valves cover to see how things are ? I'm pretty much convinced now that the engine is designed so the push rods are the weak point in case of a timing issue. Now it all depends on the "while I'm here factor", in my case I'm still putting bits together :-)
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  #10  
Old October 6th, 2012, 08:12 AM
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it's the turbo. don't forget to pull the intercooler and clean it out. It'll be filled with oil.
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Old October 6th, 2012, 10:49 AM
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I should add that it happened all so fast, within 5 seconds of the bang and smoke I was stopped on the side of the road, the engine stopped by itself. Whether it stopped immediately or ran for a second I am simply not sure, I was much more concerned with getting off the freeway and making sure the truck wasn't on fire.

I still think it's the timing... I was trying to manually move the crank with a breaker bar to get the timing pin in to the injector pump and there is definitely something wrong. I don't think the belt snapped, but I am almost positive the cam jumped a tooth or two or three. When I am rotating the crank you get to a point where it's not just the regular compression resistance, it feels like solid metal on metal contact.
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  #12  
Old October 6th, 2012, 11:48 AM
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Check push rods, they're only 8 nuts away.
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Old October 6th, 2012, 02:18 PM
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Pull your glow plugs and bar it over again, if an injector took a dump causing it to hydraulic it will bar over with the glow plugs out. If it still stops or has the extra resistance u mentioned you can rule out injectors or coolant getting into the motor.
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Old October 6th, 2012, 02:21 PM
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Best of luck! I hope I'm wrong. Turbo is one of the most expensive possibilities.
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  #15  
Old October 8th, 2012, 03:48 PM
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Mystery over....
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  #16  
Old October 8th, 2012, 03:53 PM
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Did you pull the front cover off yet? Any sign of what caused the belt to snap? Total bummer man...sorry to hear that.

On a related note, any way to check the belt condition without pulling the front cover? I was wondering if one could sneak a borescope in through the bottom hole on the cover and get a good enough view of the belt to check condition. Or am I pipe dreaming on that one?
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Old October 8th, 2012, 04:08 PM
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Did the belt snap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
Mystery over....
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  #18  
Old October 8th, 2012, 04:10 PM
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It's worth the effort to take the entire cover off. Just make sure you have extra seals if the old ones crumble and make sure to do it in correct sequence and correct tension. Other than that its easy. The biggest pain was removing the rad and intercooler but you don't need to do that if you're just inspecting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
On a related note, any way to check the belt condition without pulling the front cover? I was wondering if one could sneak a borescope in through the bottom hole on the cover and get a good enough view of the belt to check condition. Or am I pipe dreaming on that one?
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Old October 8th, 2012, 04:25 PM
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Welcome to my club. Had a hard time finding push rods, check with British Pacific, that's where I got them, all other parts I got from LR Direct, multiple and clear quality choice and fast shipping. Let us know if belt got deflanged or snapped.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manimal View Post
Did the belt snap?
No, I can turn the crank manually and the injector and cam were turning with it. Best guess is either the cam or crank jumped. I had just replaced the belt 3 days before this, so I can only guess the tension was off. I did it by the numbers according to the workshop manual, but now I think I am going to go with the "loose enough so the belt doesn't snap, but tight enough that this never f**king happens again" method.

I haven't pulled the front cover yet, I have family coming in to town today for Josh's (Crash303) wedding. So this is going to go on hold for the next week or so. But I just started 2 weeks of vacation at work so I have a good week to work it.
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