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  #1  
Old April 19th, 2007, 09:24 AM
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Another overheating thread

OK, my D110 suddenly started overheating 2 days ago. I checked coolant after it happened the first time, thought it was a little low and topped it off. The car drove fine again for another 24 hrs and then it started overheating again. So I searched here for a few things to investigate. I'm going to start with the easy one and flush the cooling system today and put fresh coolant in. If that doesn't solve the issue, how do I isolate the other possible culprits: fan clutch, thermostat, water pump?

Thanks,
Devin
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  #2  
Old April 19th, 2007, 09:35 AM
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If you still have the signal copnditioner in the temp gauge system and it is showing "hot" then that means it is "REALLY hot", because the gauge is not accurate. A replacemnt gauge or a manual temp reading device will tell you what is actually going on.
Clutch fan and external items are easiest to check, before you start changing coolant and pumps. The most common forms of mild overheating we see are rotted radiators and bad clutch fans. (but anything can be the cause really, each one is different).
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  #3  
Old April 19th, 2007, 10:01 AM
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Thanks, Mike. The signal conditioner was already resolved by the PO, so the guage should be showing accurately -- which is hot regardless, I suppose.

How do I tell if the fan clutch is working properly? I've had bad waterpumps on other vehicles and replaced them, but they usually leaked or made noise, so they were easy to diagnose. Any other symptoms (besides overheating) that could help me hone in on which part could be causing the issue?

thanks!
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Old April 19th, 2007, 12:51 PM
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The BMW guys just use a folded piece of cardboard, say from a pizza box, and gently stick it into the fan while it is moving. Don't ram it is b/c you don't want to break off a fan blade if it is working. If you gently stick it in and it knocks the cardboard away without slowing down its fine, if the fan stops moving you've found your culprit.

Mike, I'm curious what you guys like for a coolant. I know these things have weak cooling systems, so I was thinking of converting to the BMW Blue coolant. I have used it on several cars of mine and it is great! Every car I put it in runs cooler than it ever did and it is a high mileage coolant designed for aluminum systems. A little pricey, but certainly cheaper than an engine if it keeps it from overheating. Both my 325i and my Jeep Grand Cherokee used to run right at the middle and the BMW used to creep up a little in extreme heat when idling, but after flushing and installing the BMW coolant they both always run a little below middle and the BMW no longer creeps in the heat! Just wondering what your opinion is and offering my experience for others.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 01:29 PM
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Thanks, Andrew, I'll give that a shot. I think I might even have that "tool" laying around .

I haven't tried any special coolant, but I'd be interested in trying something new this time around. I've also got a new t-stat on the way. If it isn't the problem, it likely will be in the near future as it's original as far as I can tell.

Devin
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  #6  
Old April 19th, 2007, 03:06 PM
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Try some Red Line Water Wetter.

here is a cool demo on their site:
http://www.redlineoil.com/products_c...coolantFlash=1

does it make sense just to run 100% water rather then a 50/50 blend?
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  #7  
Old April 19th, 2007, 03:17 PM
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No, other than being an anti-freeze, coolant has lubricating propertys that keep things like the water pump working correctly.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:23 PM
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Well here's the latest. Now let's keep in mind that I may mention something that's obvious to some of you guys because I've learned how to fix things by driving (and sometimes not driving) Land Rovers and I haven't had this lesson yet...

I replaced the T-stat after eliminating the water pump and fan clutch. Once that was the vehicle still overheated, but it took awhile. What I found was that the coolant was migrating to the expansion tank and not siphoning back into the radiator. When the tank was full the truck would get hot and I started getting blow by on the cap. I figured that maybe the cap was bad and wasn't allowing enough of a vacuum to form to siphon the coolant back . After replacing the cap, I'm not getting any coolant blowing by the cap, but I still have the same symptom. Tomorrow, although I'm 99.9% sure I put the T-stat in correctly, I'm going to make sure it didn't rotate while I was tightening the cover, but assuming that's OK, do I need to start looking at internal motor stuff like head gasket, etc.? I was thinking that it wouldn't be that beause the oil is still nice and caramel clear, but maybe that doesn't mean much? Any ideas to look at would be great. I may need some tips on how to check things, too as this is a little uncharted for me. I've got the big book and a bunch of tools (my Dad's an electrician :D ) so I'm pretty capable once I have a few directions.

Thanks,
Devin
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  #9  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 10:19 PM
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Check to see if there are hydrocarbons in the coolant - a good shop which handles cooling systems as a specialty can normally test this for you easily enough. A blown head gasket, cracked head or cylinder liner problem can all have that symptom: they can superheat the coolant (by exposing it to the combustion, and also by the way pollute the coolant at this time) and this can push the steamed coolant to the expansion tank and eventually, under pressure, out the overflow hose. I also had no sign of contaminent in the oil. Is there any sign of white smoke coming out the exhaust which looks just like steam you get from running the engine in the morning burning off the condensation - but it never completely stops when warm?

This is what was happening to my D90 and your story sounds familiar. I did alot of the same troubleshooting you did and after replacing alot of parts I didn't really need to found out that I did have a cracked head after all.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 10:24 PM
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Ok, some more questions on how it's overheating.

On the road, at highway speed? Or while doing slow, around town driving? Or both?

Generally, if a fan clutch goes bad it will show up more as an overheating problem at low speeds and at idle, and when you are at highway speed the additional airflow from the trucks movement will cause the temperatures to go back down.

If it's overheating while at speed, or all the time, then it's something else.

-Hans
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  #11  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 10:32 PM
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After the tstat did you burp the system?
take a look at your rad esp in between rad & condenser could be full of shit as well as your rad rotting or being plugged.
I would bet you drove it on a warmer day than usual & it was a little low on coolant & after the refill you might not have gotten all the air out of the system.
Maybe pull the rad & take it to a rad shop see if its plugged. If so you could have it rodded or recored. I would [if its bad] have it recored & throw extra row or two..
What were the symtems of the overheat boil over or what?
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Old April 24th, 2007, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Is there any sign of white smoke coming out the exhaust which looks just like steam you get from running the engine in the morning burning off the condensation - but it never completely stops when warm?
No, the exhaust is invisible, but I've heard several stories like yours which may mean time for a 4.6 -- something I want, but of course not ready to drop the coin yet.

Quote:
On the road, at highway speed? Or while doing slow, around town driving? Or both?

Generally, if a fan clutch goes bad it will show up more as an overheating problem at low speeds and at idle, and when you are at highway speed the additional airflow from the trucks movement will cause the temperatures to go back down.

If it's overheating while at speed, or all the time, then it's something else.

-Hans
It seems to overheat anywhere. It seems more related to time, which make sense because once all of the coolant migrates to the expansion tank it starts getting hot. When I reset the coolant levels it runs cool for about 30 - 45 minutes.

Quote:
After the tstat did you burp the system?
take a look at your rad esp in between rad & condenser could be full of shit as well as your rad rotting or being plugged.
I would bet you drove it on a warmer day than usual & it was a little low on coolant & after the refill you might not have gotten all the air out of the system.
Maybe pull the rad & take it to a rad shop see if its plugged. If so you could have it rodded or recored. I would [if its bad] have it recored & throw extra row or two..
What were the symtems of the overheat boil over or what?
That's a good question because I assumed I could still have air in the system. What is the most effective way to "burp" the system. I've run it open, added coolant, let it cool and topped the levels off, but should I be forcing more coolant through somehow. Also, should I do this with the heater on?.

The area between the radiator and condenser is nice and clean. Assuming my T-stat is in correctly, I'm going to check with the radiator shop.

The car has run perfectly since I bought it (last November) and it literally just started to get hot one afternoon -- I noticed because I keep an eye on the gauges. The car still ran fine. I let it cool and checked the coolant and found it slightly low so I topped it off. The next day I drove it for most of the day and then it started to get hot again in the afternoon (I'm on CO and our temperatures have been pretty mild and steady all day). I parked it, checked the water pump, fan clutch, oil and ordered a T-stat. After I installed the T-stat is when I noticed that the expansion chamber won't siphon coolant back into the radiator (which is why I'm going to check that again today).

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Keep 'em coming!

Devin
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Old April 24th, 2007, 02:33 PM
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Expansion tank..... black metal, or white plastic? If it's coming out from the pressure cap, it should be coming out that tube that runs down from the tank. However, there is also a possibility that the expansion tank is cracked and the whole system is not holding pressure.

-Hans
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Old April 24th, 2007, 04:10 PM
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The expansion tank is the black metal one and it does have an overflow hose that is working. I don't think that the tank is cracked because the system is definitely relieving pressure when I open the cap. I didn't get a chance to check the t-stat today, but I did reset all the fluid levels and with the pressure that develops I think I'll need to do the HC test as the coolant system is likely getting pressurized by the exhaust. That's what is likely pushing all the coolant to the expansion tank -- again, just a guess given everything else I've checked so far.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 04:38 PM
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Also, just because it's a cheap part, I'd replace the sender for the temp gauge with a new one. \

-Hans
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Old April 24th, 2007, 10:06 PM
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Here's a question: Can a bad catalytic converter cause these kind of symptoms? I have reason to believe that one of mine is pretty beat inside...
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Old April 24th, 2007, 10:57 PM
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It is theoretically possible that one is clogged up, causing the engine to have to work harder to push the exhaust through it.
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  #18  
Old April 26th, 2007, 06:06 PM
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The bad news may ultimately be good news?

Got the coolant tested today and sure enough it's contaminated with exhaust, similar to Jason's situation. I'm starting to get some ideas on blocks, although there is a chance it's just a gasket, a discussion that I had with the Denver based Rover guru has got me thinking the worst. The upside is the possibility of a 5.0 short block. Does anybody have any experience with these guys?:

http://www.lanocharacing.com/recondi...g_process.html
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Old August 9th, 2007, 12:24 AM
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thread revival...

Devin,

Did you ever resolve your problem? I'm having the exact same problem. I don't *think* it's a head gasket, because the oil is clean, there's no white smoke from the tailpipe, and the coolant smells and looks good. I'm really stumped. I've replaced the radiator, fan clutch, thermostat, and coolant.

Chris
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Old August 9th, 2007, 12:35 AM
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that intake manifold gasket can do it.
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