Alternator Upgrade - 200TDI - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old December 14th, 2010, 12:43 PM
ajh
Status: Offline
Andrew J. Hutton
1993 Defender 110 200TDI
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 735
Alternator Upgrade - 200TDI

I'm quickly realizing that my current alternator isn't going to cut it. I'm also thinking that any of sufficient power output isn't going to fit into the stock location either or be happy being driven by the what, 12mm belt that the stock one uses. I know there are a few 80A ones available in the UK that can be swapped in and I might end up going that route but my other alternative is running the accessory battery totally separate and putting a 200A into the space where the AC compressor would usually go.

Has anyone done/seen something like this done? Also, any of the more commonly available higher output units available locally going to fit as a stock replacement unit? If the stock is 40A then I might be fine with an 80A, if it's 60A then I probably want to go to 100A minimum.
__________________
--

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Parts & Accessories Imported Weekly

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Like us on Facebook for a discount on parts!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Handmade Soap ideal for Mechanics!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old December 14th, 2010, 02:53 PM
o2batsea's Avatar
o2batsea
Status: Offline
Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kensington md
Posts: 6,506
Registry
www.balmar.net has alternators that will fit. All you need to know is the foot style. There are detailed drawings and installation instructions. They have alternators up to 265amps.
I will also add that increasing battery capacity usually trumps alternator output unless you are doing something like welding.

Another thing is that diesels don't spin fast enough. You need a really massive alternator to put out 200 amps at 2000 rpm. I don't think you have the room in any way. The advertised amp rating of an alternator is usually at like 6000 rpm
at 70 degrees F ambient.
For example, Balmar's 210A alternator puts out only a puny 37 amps at 2000RPM

Two G31 AGM batteries will run a lot of stuff for a long time unless you are, well, welding. Why do you need a big alternator?
__________________
Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old December 14th, 2010, 04:39 PM
ajh
Status: Offline
Andrew J. Hutton
1993 Defender 110 200TDI
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 735
Right now if I turn on all the electrics I get a warning light that the alternator is not keeping up with the current drain. I suspect it's a 45A unit and when you add an amplifier (Class-D to save on current draw) plus the seat heaters, plus about 9 autometer gauges/lights, the two headlamps, charging a phone, charging an ipod, and running the heater fan, it seems to be out-stripping capacity and I'm still adding more including a PC and two winches, so having more capacity would be a good idea, and having a 2nd alternator means if one fails I don't get stuck.
__________________
--

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Parts & Accessories Imported Weekly

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Like us on Facebook for a discount on parts!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Handmade Soap ideal for Mechanics!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old December 14th, 2010, 04:53 PM
mongosd2's Avatar
mongosd2
Status: Offline
Frank Rafka
01 D2 96 D1 83 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson
Posts: 861
you should start with a higher capacity battery...or, considering your trying to power a small country within your truck, a dual battery setup
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old December 14th, 2010, 07:30 PM
o2batsea's Avatar
o2batsea
Status: Offline
Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kensington md
Posts: 6,506
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajh View Post
Right now if I turn on all the electrics I get a warning light that the alternator is not keeping up with the current drain. I suspect it's a 45A unit and when you add an amplifier (Class-D to save on current draw) plus the seat heaters, plus about 9 autometer gauges/lights, the two headlamps, charging a phone, charging an ipod, and running the heater fan, it seems to be out-stripping capacity and I'm still adding more including a PC and two winches, so having more capacity would be a good idea, and having a 2nd alternator means if one fails I don't get stuck.
Biggest draw are the seat heaters and your amp. The rest all don't add up to more than 15 amps Assuming they are always on, all this will certainly overtax your 45A alternator. That alternator at 2000 RPM is likely putting out about 20 amps or so. You should definitely up your alternator, as well as your battery bank. The cost is going to be that A: your engine will be asked to donate more HP to the alternator, B: you are going to have to pony up many many hundreds of dollars to win the amps war.

Your choice is also to, of course, lose some of the civilization.
__________________
Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old December 14th, 2010, 07:46 PM
smenzel's Avatar
smenzel
Status: Offline
Sandro
1967 Series IIA
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 330
With a slower turning diesel engine, is a smaller pulley on the alternator worth considering?

Hopefully, I got that right. Change the pulley size to make the alternator turn faster.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old December 14th, 2010, 07:54 PM
ajh
Status: Offline
Andrew J. Hutton
1993 Defender 110 200TDI
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
you should start with a higher capacity battery...or, considering your trying to power a small country within your truck, a dual battery setup
It already has a dual battery setup, but you're missing the point. More battery just means more reserve capacity, it does not help if you're draining out more than you're putting back.

Looking at things an 80A is probably sufficient, however it's nice having more when you need to winch to get the cycle times down.
__________________
--

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Parts & Accessories Imported Weekly

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Like us on Facebook for a discount on parts!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Handmade Soap ideal for Mechanics!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old December 14th, 2010, 08:42 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,250
Registry
If you have a Defender style engine and LHD, the space available is VERY tight. The easy option is the stock 65 Amp with bigger wiring. These have a smaller pulley and work at idle. If you find a suitable larger unit that fits without any mods, let me know. I've looked and have not been able to find one.

------ Follow up post added December 14th, 2010 08:01 PM ------

I will add that I found the 45 Amp alternator not able to keep up with the headlights and heater fan unless above 1200 rpm. I have a dash mounted digital voltmeter, so can see instantly when it is keeping up and when it is not. With the stock 65 A unit, it holds voltage at idle with both the headlights and heater on full.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old December 15th, 2010, 07:54 AM
o2batsea's Avatar
o2batsea
Status: Offline
Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kensington md
Posts: 6,506
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by smenzel View Post
With a slower turning diesel engine, is a smaller pulley on the alternator worth considering?

Hopefully, I got that right. Change the pulley size to make the alternator turn faster.
OK Let's assume a 2:1 pulley. At 2200 rpm the alternator is spinning at 4400 rpm, or about a third the speed needed to achieve rated output. So logically you would have to slash a third from the alternator's capacity in order to figure out if it can keep you humming along. So your 80A alternator could only ever put out about 53 amps under ideal conditions.
Can't make the pulley too small though, as the drive belt will start slipping. Serp belt is better due to increased contact area.

Also, since the engine is rarely ever running WOT, the charge rate will be well below that 53 amps. At idle speed an alternator is doing pretty much nothing, maybe a trickle of a couple amps.

A second alternator (maybe PTO driven) is the sure bet here.
__________________
Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old December 16th, 2010, 07:49 PM
mongosd2's Avatar
mongosd2
Status: Offline
Frank Rafka
01 D2 96 D1 83 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson
Posts: 861
here's a 100amp option...from a 300tdi, should just need to change the pully to a v belt one...part number AMR5425

http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php?xProd=81914
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old December 16th, 2010, 07:54 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,250
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
here's a 100amp option...from a 300tdi, should just need to change the pully to a v belt one...part number AMR5425

http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php?xProd=81914
No, it won't work on a Defender LHD 200TDI. I've tried.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old December 16th, 2010, 07:58 PM
mongosd2's Avatar
mongosd2
Status: Offline
Frank Rafka
01 D2 96 D1 83 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson
Posts: 861
sorry, your right, not a defender 200tdi, but it will work on a discovery 200tdi motor...

read your thread, what did you end up using? was it this one:

IMER AL0372 (O/E: 20130212) alternator 12v 100A
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old December 16th, 2010, 09:17 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,250
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
read your thread, what did you end up using? was it this one:

IMER AL0372 (O/E: 20130212) alternator 12v 100A
No, it ended up being exactly the same alternator as AMR5425.......

I've put in an OEM 65 Amp alternator with a 4 gauge wire to the battery. It works much better than the 45 A one. I no longer lose charge idling in the winter....
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old December 19th, 2010, 12:13 AM
ajh
Status: Offline
Andrew J. Hutton
1993 Defender 110 200TDI
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 735
Turns out the 45A was on the way out, it stopped being able to keep the batteries charged this morning. I grabbed the 65A out of the 90 sitting here and adapted the attachment cables and it works correctly now. I also made pigtail cables from the alternator up to the valve cover so I can add more wire in the future, I had a short piece of 4GA so now I won't have to mess around behind the alternator to make future improvements (yay).
__________________
--

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Parts & Accessories Imported Weekly

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Like us on Facebook for a discount on parts!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Handmade Soap ideal for Mechanics!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old December 19th, 2010, 12:21 PM
mongosd2's Avatar
mongosd2
Status: Offline
Frank Rafka
01 D2 96 D1 83 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson
Posts: 861
Is your 200tdi a defender motor or from a disco?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old December 19th, 2010, 04:03 PM
ajh
Status: Offline
Andrew J. Hutton
1993 Defender 110 200TDI
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 735
Though the 1991 and 1993 differ a fair bit they're both original defender 200s.
__________________
--

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Parts & Accessories Imported Weekly

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Like us on Facebook for a discount on parts!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Handmade Soap ideal for Mechanics!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old December 19th, 2010, 07:46 PM
mongosd2's Avatar
mongosd2
Status: Offline
Frank Rafka
01 D2 96 D1 83 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson
Posts: 861
mines from a Disco...so I have some options and I'm keeping it RHD...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old December 19th, 2010, 08:49 PM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Offline
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,844
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
here's a 100amp option...from a 300tdi, should just need to change the pully to a v belt one...part number AMR5425

http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php?xProd=81914

For some reason I keep eating these. The alternator charges fine but after a couple of months the bearings growl.
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old December 19th, 2010, 09:07 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,250
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
For some reason I keep eating these. The alternator charges fine but after a couple of months the bearings growl.
Are you getting genuine Marelli units?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old December 19th, 2010, 09:26 PM
pendy's Avatar
pendy
Status: Offline
jim pendleton
89'd90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: andover, ks usa
Posts: 2,341
I have bosch 110 amp alternators made to suit this diesel application. With a removeable brush and regulator unit it is very field serviceable. Heavy bearings already so not such a frail piece of equiptment like the Marelli units.

You can PM if interested.
__________________
legend in my own mind

Advice is only as good as the person applying it--
Don't make me give you bad advice!

Lemons or lemonaide, whatever your taste provides.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
200tdi, alternator, tdi

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adding A/C to a 200tdi Defender dave_lucas Defender Technical Discussions 35 October 3rd, 2015 03:41 AM
Defender 200tdi wastegate / boost tee location dave_lucas Defender Technical Discussions 9 November 18th, 2009 04:18 PM
1993 LR90 200tdi. globallandrovers The Vendors Loft 1 October 11th, 2006 07:16 AM
difference: Disco 200tdi and Defender 200tdi? jaherring Defender Technical Discussions 30 June 3rd, 2005 10:10 AM
200tdi D110 Camel Trophy 65k Eric Siepmann Misc. Chit-Chat 22 May 26th, 2005 05:16 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:29 AM.


Copyright