Air Filter Box Upgrade- Help!! - Defender Source
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Old October 9th, 2004, 01:53 PM
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Air Filter Box Upgrade- Help!!

I am working on my Defender 90's engine and have come to a halt with figuring out how to get an upgraded air filter box. I want to avoid using oiled air filters because I will be doing a lot of offroad in dusty conditions. I am trying to figure out the best way and have searched all over for a solution. If someone can help me with the Air filter box for my 3.9 EFI I would really appreciate it.
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  #2  
Old October 9th, 2004, 02:29 PM
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Some useful info. if this pertains to your mods.
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:42:22 -0700
From: Larry Michelon kismet2@erols.com
Subject: [D90] Performance Gains

I did a search to find the losses of cutting of the "horn" on the air filter housing (D90's and Classic RR's). At the same time I stumble across the other notes that Jim Allen had writting to the list. Whether or not you believe Jim as a very knowledgable person, he has documentation (often first hand) of his findings. Sorry if it's so long.

Below are direct quotes from Jim's postings. Find out more about Jim at http://www.fourwheeler.com/techline/lrover/index.html.

ON K&N FILTERS:
Item 1) I have several test (the sources of which I posted yesterday) that puts the K&N at least equal to a paper filter. I'm doing more research on this but so far K&Ns are rated as 96.8-97.8% efficient (K&N claims 97%). The info I have on paper filters rates them from 92-96% efficient (the 92% info is about ten years old)
Item 2) I don't understand how you can deduce that a lower restriction filter equals less power at low rpms? I can't account for a Honda but I have dyno charts (from a Disco, RR 4.0SE and RR Classic) that's how that there is little benifit to K&Ns at low rpm (but no loss) and a 4.5-55hp increase at 5000rpm. I was there during the tests that were being done for a series of articles I was working on. There are other tests in magazines that also show similar results.
The whole game with performance air filters is airflow, so until the engine really starts to wheeze at the upper end, it can work OK with any filter that gives it enough air for a particular speed. Based on the tests I ran, the OE filter starts to wheeze at about 3500rpm because that's when the extra power starts to come in. We ran tests on the air filter housings themselves and found that, with the exception of the RR 4.0SE, they were no restriction to power up to the 5500 rpm redline.
Since few of us see 5000rpm, the 4.5-5.5hp may not be a big deal, though my seat of the pants says the engine is snappier on acceleration. After the dyno tests, I drove the 4.0SE and the Disco from the dyno in California back to Colorado and noted an increase in mileage over the trip out in stock condition, but since there were other mods to the vehicles at that point, I can't attribute it to the filter. A non-Rover magazine project vehicle I am currently working on has noted an increase in mileage that I can definately attribute to the filter, but the vehicle had a particularly inefficient unit as stock.
Item 2A) Upon reflection, a carbureted engine might have a problem going to a free flow filter because it was originally jetted for a restictive filter. If you were to re-jet the carb, power would be restored or increased. I guess I'd need to know the details of the test your mentioned.
The bottom line is that for most folks, the power changes and mileage increase would be minimal - but there! The main benifits would be a higher capacity to carry dirt, the ability to handle water and the option to clean the filter forever instead of replacing it sooner or later.
The debate rages on!
Jim Allen

I found this in the F.A.Q. sections of this site.
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  #3  
Old October 9th, 2004, 10:24 PM
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I'm very interested in this too. Ideally, I'd like to have a very short cold air path to the throttle body. Necessary are 1. filter, 2. MAF. That long MAF-to-throttle hose has got to heat the air up considerably. Although a snorkel brings in cool air, it has to travel through an addition 3 feet of under-hood hose.

The john lee Expedition Exchange snorkel tech article looks good, but I don't like the small filter solution. I want LOTS of cold air! Ideas welcome!

I am running without the horn. Can't tell if it improves air flow for sure, but I can't believe that horn has any value whatsoever unless it's just to keep the paper dry in wet conditions....

DW
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  #4  
Old October 9th, 2004, 10:33 PM
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Until other projects came up, I was trying to figure out how to relocate an air filter to just under the wing-top vent. I figured I'd make a custom box to put the filter in, some type of baffle to keep rain/snow off the filter element, and mount the MAF to the filter box. Then it would be close to a straight shot right into the plenum, and give me cold fresh air at the same time. If I ever wanted to add a snorkle, it's just a matter of sealing up the box since the snorkle would feed right into it.

-Hans
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  #5  
Old October 9th, 2004, 10:40 PM
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I know it sounds silly, but you could put a snorkel on and a good precleaner, the precleaner will catch most of the sand and then you ca run an oiled air filter allowing some more air flow.
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Old October 9th, 2004, 11:25 PM
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Before starting this project (converting a TD5 to 3.9) I thought it would be very good if I can get cool air into the system. So I decided to buy an air scoop that fits on the right wing vent. Little did I know that the heater has a duct that is linked to it. A thought crossed my mind to change the intake of the heater and get it to go through the side vent and use the right wing vent (w/scoop) for the air filter box. I placed the coils under the left vent in order for it to have access to cooler air. I always been told by rally drivers that paper filters are the best because they don't clog up in dusty conditions. My plan is to either stick to the original filter box, custom make one, or get an upgrade that fits. I read an article in LRO (OCT 2004that said that the wingtop vents do not get a lot air because once the air hits the front of the car very little goes throught the scoop on the wingtop. This makes me think if its worth using the wingtop vent as an air intake of cold air. PersonnalyI have never been too fond of snorkels in terms of the final look I'm trying to achieve.
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Old October 10th, 2004, 12:03 PM
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Z
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Just out of curiosity, why the 3.9? why not something bigger like the 4.6 or a chevy small block? Just wondering.
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Old October 10th, 2004, 12:53 PM
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Well, this is a trial and error project and I want to make sure that everything is running smoothly as I test what I (and a couple of Rally Prep Guys) will end up with once its used a bit on the road. If it goes well for a while with no problems then and only then will I upgrade to a 5.0 TVR engine. With this I hope I could get to 120MPH!!!

I have attached 2 pics one of the car and the other is the engine awaiting completion.
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  #9  
Old October 10th, 2004, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkhalifa
"...If it goes well for a while with no problems then and only then will I upgrade to a 5.0 TVR engine. With this I hope I could get to 120MPH!!!
That's the second time you've mentioned aspiring to 120MPH in a Defender. Why don't you just buy a car designed to go that fast?
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  #10  
Old October 10th, 2004, 03:35 PM
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Thats why we have choices and I guess thats MY choice. Part of the reason I am in this forum is because I'm a Defender fan....I have seen many owners who want to see something different about their Defenders. I didn't read a rule book saying you can't do what you want to a Defender.
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  #11  
Old October 10th, 2004, 03:47 PM
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yeah but honestly why? There are many more vehicles better suited to that sort of thing. More power to you
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  #12  
Old October 10th, 2004, 04:01 PM
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Well I always like to see the look of people when they see something they don't expect. I remember once that someone told me he saw a 1984 Range Rover beat a Nissan Maxima in drag race. Its things of that nature that really make it worthwile. I know its not safe to do in a D-90. It give Defenders credit that they can perform as well on road. I won't race the car day in day out. Its when I get the occasional sedan driver that looks down at Defenders to see what a Defender is really made of.
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Old October 10th, 2004, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkhalifa
"Thats why we have choices and I guess thats MY choice... I didn't read a rule book saying you can't do what you want to a Defender."

What the hell are you talking about? Of course we have choices; I never said you shouldn't be free to do what you want. It's simply my opinion that some choices make more sense than others, and I was asking why you would want to put the effort into making a Defender go 120MPH. You obviously realize how ridiculous it is otherwise you wouldn't be so defensive about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alkhalifa
Well I always like to see the look of people when they see something they don't expect....Its things of that nature that really make it worthwhile.
Uh huh, I see. I don't expect to see a boat made from a coffee table, but that doesn't make the one below any less stupid.
You can choose to wear women's clothing and dance around singing in the streets also. That doesn't mean people won't look at you like you're some kind of nut. It also doesn't mean that it hasn't been done before. A 120MPH Defender is about as silly as a 4-wheel drive Corvette, but hey, it your choice. As far as I'm concerned, you can do what you want. I was just asking the question.
MY$.02
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File Type: bmp redneckvette.bmp (335.4 KB, 179 views)
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  #14  
Old October 10th, 2004, 08:13 PM
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John P I bet has been up to 120 in a D90 . . . I had mine up to 110, and that is a stock 3.9
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  #15  
Old October 10th, 2004, 11:37 PM
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As you mentioned in your opinion its a waste of time, but I never see that it is a waste of time. People are trying to speed up their Defender and you can see that evilfig mentioned he has hit 110. Comparing a Defender reaching is 120 is like a boat made out of a coffee table or a 4x4 vette shows what you know about Defenders. It was published on LRO 105 MPH in a Defender 90. Your opinion is that it was not a good choice? Or the Overfinch Defender 570 is a waste of time in your opinion. So now we have people who have done it personnaly and companies professionally. And you think its nuts a bit too self opinionated aren't we? And whats with the cross dressing offcourse people will think your a nut.........opnions about choices are still opinions it doesn't make them facts.

Lighten Up.......
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  #16  
Old October 11th, 2004, 08:25 AM
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Neutral corners everyone For some reason, this board is prone to temporary outbursts of 4x4 snobbishness.

I think it comes from the fact that here in the states its so common to see idiots driving their kids around in huge trucks, getting 6mpg, running people off the roads and sidewalks simply because its fashionable. We really get edgy about being categorized with the "SUV drivers."

So dont take too much offense when someone here tells you to "get a real car."

And also, some of the old hands could be a little less quick on the trigger to tell people that they have to enjoy Defenders the same way you do.

Remember, the real enemy is the soccer mom!
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Old October 11th, 2004, 09:09 AM
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Not trying to add fuel to the fire but, I know of a few Rover owners on this board who like to drive their Rovers fast, and would like to have more HP under the hood and some that do have some more hp that drive fast. I don't see any reason why it would not be cool to have a few more HP, 184 stock really sucks. And even my 90 isn't all that bad up to 90 mph, and like Jim said as long as your not a soccer mom eating dinner and talking on your cell phone while you pull out into the guy driving a blue d-90 then you are probably OK to be doing 120 on the right road. Sure there are cars better suited for it, heck a rock buggy is better off road then my 90, and a diesel VW Jetta would be a lot better on road then my 90, but they lack the feel I get when driving my 90 on or off road.
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Old October 11th, 2004, 10:40 AM
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Art, why do you always like to stir shit up It's funny that are giving this dude hard time about fast D90's. Aren’t you running a Super Charger? Ok ok so you bought your truck like that. Didn't you ask me about putting a 4.6 in your truck? Didn't you ask me about wanting your D90 to haul ass w/o worrying about the engine falling a part. Well, keep your eye on Nasser he could be your answer Having a truck that runs 100 mph over in Persian Gulf countries is nothing new. You gotta see for yourself. Nissan Patrol that beats a Corvette at top speed. Toy Land Cruiser that beats a Viper from start to finish. Guys asking to make their trucks faster is normal get used to it.
I for one would love to go faster in my D90. Ask Mike how was our drive to Moab; we would have loved to go passed that 70 mph speed.
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Old October 11th, 2004, 11:22 AM
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Guys Thanks for understanding.....Supercharge Art????????? I never thought of putting that on my 90....Well, as Twisted just mentioned amazing things happen.....Last I saw Toyota Land Crusier out beat a Porsche Turbo....That was a killer to the porsche dealer......in the Middle East.....The Arabian Gulf is full of amazing stories of fast cars....the only problem is......nobody makes an effort of telling the world about it....200MPH 4x4's...................Personally....Defender is the ultimate 4x4.
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  #20  
Old October 11th, 2004, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkhalifa
Before starting this project (converting a TD5 to 3.9) I thought it would be very good if I can get cool air into the system. So I decided to buy an air scoop that fits on the right wing vent. Little did I know that the heater has a duct that is linked to it. A thought crossed my mind to change the intake of the heater and get it to go through the side vent and use the right wing vent (w/scoop) for the air filter box. I placed the coils under the left vent in order for it to have access to cooler air. I always been told by rally drivers that paper filters are the best because they don't clog up in dusty conditions. My plan is to either stick to the original filter box, custom make one, or get an upgrade that fits. I read an article in LRO (OCT 2004that said that the wingtop vents do not get a lot air because once the air hits the front of the car very little goes throught the scoop on the wingtop. This makes me think if its worth using the wingtop vent as an air intake of cold air. PersonnalyI have never been too fond of snorkels in terms of the final look I'm trying to achieve.
I've also thought about some type of intake/scoop on the wing vent to grab cold air. Regardless of how much airflow hits the horizontal surface you'll still get *cold* air. My point is that maybe a scoop will not be extremely effective in grabbing *forced* air (because the big square nose of the D90 shields it from a good amount of 'headwind'), but it will still be *cold* compared to the air under the hood.

You could also route the air intake somewhere up front behind the headlights (lots of cars intake there) but for a 4x4 it's best not to *lower* the point of your air intake (water injestion). Also, for dusty conditions, the higher the intake the better (this is where the snorkel comes in handy, but the look is not what you want) from what I've read.

I thought that perhaps a *rearward* opening scoop would be the best solution for cold air inlet, mounted high enough to be out of the bulk of the dust, and the rear opening would prevent sucking in too much water (from random splashes) or other heavier particles that might get 'caught' by the scoop.

Where did you get your vent scoop from?
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