Advice on an engine tear down - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 12th, 2007, 04:51 PM
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Stephan Laputka
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Advice on an engine tear down

I had a long post a few weeks back about a gurgling noise noise coming out of my 95 d-90. After trying to combat the issue with advice from this board, I couldn't figure it out. Took to the shop and it was diagnosed with a worn lobe on the camshaft( #6 exhaust). The estimate I got is almost 4 grand. Needless to say, I'm gonna attempt it myself. I already have a 4.6 with only 60K on it, I don't know why this happened. I always took very good care of that engine. Anyway I've ready numerous threads about changing the camshaft and some people say it's hard some people say it's easy. I figure while i'm on there.. timing chain, bearings, lifters, head haskets etc. Peace of mind for miles to come. However, I've never attempted an engine teardown in my DYI endeavours. I've never seen it be done but an LR engine isn't too complex. My question is: how realistic is my thinking that if i take my time all will be well? Are there special tools needed? Settings I should be aware of etc? I don't have a workshop manual but I found something on the web about a d-90 engine, it's a pdf file so hopefully that will help. Lastly, Anyone in the Nyack,NY area that might be able to offer a hand incase of a jam? There is beer in the deal..
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  #2  
Old July 12th, 2007, 06:09 PM
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Steve Maietta
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Hey laputka, I'm doing the same exact thing on my 94 beginning august 7 or so. Im in Northern NJ. Ive never done it before either, but it doens't look too difficult.. I'd love to help out, im close and all plus Ive got the workshop manuals. But Ill be in Cali until Aug 5. . .

Take your time and take pics of things as you go so you can get it all back together. Especially the brackets and things from the front of the engine. Once the radiator and grill are out of the way it should go pretty quick.

~Steve
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  #3  
Old July 13th, 2007, 02:17 PM
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Robert Ragland
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Is this a daily driver? If so, have everything organized to a "T". Go through the major steps, with a clear understanding of what will occur. Lay out the major tools you will need, have all parts handy, including any oils, degreaser, etc. If you are unsure about anything, figure it out before taking things apart. Forcing something like a trim piece to fit is whole lot different than forcing an engine rebuild.

You don't want to be struggling with an engine rebuild 11:30 pm Sunday, and the down side to screwing up is very high.
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  #4  
Old July 19th, 2007, 10:06 AM
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Stephan Laputka
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It's not a daily driver so I will be taking my merry time with this. Anyhow, started taking things apart and have decided to do a head gaskets as well. The thing keeps overheating and the only part I haven't changed is the temp gauge and head gasket so why not. My question is about the heads. I got this funky engine shop near my house that builds race engines for everything from TR3s and MGBs to 800 hp turbo Vette's. I dicussed the land rover with him and was familiar with the engine. So if I take the heads off I feel reseaonably comfortble giving them to him to do some work. Question is, is there anything I can do with my existing heads to get more power out of them or is my only option buying new ones from RPI or something?

p.s. I know this is a slippery slope but while the distributer is out.. anyone run those petronix ones? they make a difference?
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  #5  
Old July 19th, 2007, 11:01 PM
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Steve Maietta
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yeah you could get the ports masssaged and polished and possibly matched to the intake and exhaust.. that will let the whole thing breathe easier.. BUT.. will it want more fuel then? can the ECU adapt / cope? Will this even help much at the relatively low RPM that these engines run at? All questions for your engine guy..

You're getting the heads skimmed, then you can run the composite gaskets to get your compression ratio back to normal.... Supposedly they seal much easier than the stockers. I'd get a set and bring them to the guy along with the old ones and let him make the call.

Exciting stuff, keep us informed..

~Steve
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  #6  
Old July 19th, 2007, 11:47 PM
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Stephan Laputka
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that's a good idea about the gasket. However I have no idea about the 4.6 ECU keeping up. I'll talk to the guy and see what he says.
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  #7  
Old August 31st, 2007, 07:34 PM
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Stephan Laputka
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Finally got around to doing this teardown. Parts are on their way but meantime i'm thinking about my heads.. I'm gonna give them to my engine guy with the composite gaskets but I would like to say something more intelligent than "here are my heads make em work better." I'm not familiar with machining but are there specifications and tolerances I might be able to offer him that would give him a better idea of where I'm trying to go with the heads? For example, can i get the specs of an rpi stage 3 head and then machine my heads according to those specs...?? Lastly are there any US manufactuerers of aftermarket heads?
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  #8  
Old August 31st, 2007, 11:06 PM
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Steve Maietta
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I think you should tell him what you're doing and tell him what you want out of the engine. Let him decide. Most people don't know enough about head work to give intelligent requests to a machine shop (Im assuming) so don't feel like a fool no matter what. Don't forget to give him the stock gaskets along with the new ones so he can figure out how much to skim to retain stock compression ratio. He may even suggest changing the CR for some reason..? who knows... but the more you give him the more he can fine-tune your project if he knows his stuff.

I think RPI's exact recipe is a secret.. (It would be for me if I was trying to market and sell heads)

People have been doing this kind of thing on V8's for decades, there is a general process to follow and things to do to reach certain goals. You tell him what you want (low RPM torque, or midrange HP for example) and he can do some things or suggest a few paths to take to achieve the desired result. You might want to bring him your intake and exhaust manifolds also so he can match them.. Or suggest this to him and see if he thinks its important or worth doing to reach your goal..

have fun, learn, and report it all back to the board!!
~Steve
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  #9  
Old September 4th, 2007, 05:24 PM
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Stephan Laputka
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Ordered my piper rp4 cam and duplex timing chain. Now the waiting game..
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  #10  
Old September 8th, 2007, 10:02 PM
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Stephan Laputka
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Getting the timing right

So I got this workshop manual off the internet and it says when removing the distributor to rotate the crank until it's lined up with #1 and mark the distributor in relation. Now in my case if i'm changing the cam to a different one (piper) and most likely the distributor too then how do I go about getting my timing right when i reassemble? I'm assuming that alignment mark is going to be useless since i'm not replacing with the exact same parts.

Also to remove the timing cover do I have to take the water pump out or can I get around removing the thing?
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  #11  
Old September 8th, 2007, 11:51 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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You don't have to remove the water pump from the timing cover but three of the water pump bolts go all the way through the pump and the cover, so you have to remove those and then the pump comes off with the cover. If you have never replaced the pump in the vehicle's entire life I would replace it now though as it is easy when the cover is in your hand and takes a while when the car is all back together.

As for the timing marks, I would mark it so that you have a general idea when you look at it you can get the new dist. in pretty close, then just use a timing light to set it to where you want it after you get the truck fired up.
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  #12  
Old September 9th, 2007, 12:29 AM
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Stephan Laputka
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Wont the existing timing mark( white hash mark on crank) be irrelevant with a different model camshaft?
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  #13  
Old September 10th, 2007, 09:02 AM
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Stephan Laputka
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So interestingly enough, I pulled the front timing cover off my 4.6 and to my surprise I found a duplex timing chain already installed. The engine has 50K on it. Should I replace the chain while while i'm there or is it premature?
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Old September 10th, 2007, 10:22 AM
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Andrew Najarian
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You probably don't need to, but if you already have a new one...go for it. Just make sure that if it is a gems engine you use a timing gear meant for a gems engine. The gears are different btw the gems and bosch engines and will set a crank/cam sensor fault.
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  #15  
Old September 14th, 2007, 11:41 PM
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Thomas Taylor
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This is good stuff. I am learning tons. Thanks!!!!
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  #16  
Old September 15th, 2007, 10:38 AM
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Steve Maietta
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Well if you do have a worn lobe on your camshaft at only 50k, then something is wrong.. so while you're in there check all the oil passages for debris or clogs, try to get the oil pump spinning and see if oil is coming out of all the right places..

sounds like your'e on your way! keep us informed!

~Steve
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  #17  
Old September 20th, 2007, 10:58 AM
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Stephan Laputka
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Ive taken out the cam and upon examining everything I have the following to report: all of the tappets aside from one were perfect, no scratches, nicks, dings nothing. However one tappet was heavily dished and the corresponding cam lobe was worn flat. I figure it's an oil passage of somesort but the manual I have is not helping me troubleshoot any flow problems. An advice on how to go about troubleshooting a flow problem? Is there a way to clean out the oil passage ways?
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  #18  
Old September 20th, 2007, 08:08 PM
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Stephan Laputka
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Carbon build up

I am attatching a couple of photos from the teardown. One shows the worn tappet on the left and a good one on the right. My question is in regard to the pistons. I've never torn an engine apart before and I was wondering whether or not this was a normal amount of carbon buildup? It seems a lot to me. Should I do something about it? There is also a picture of the corresponding head. Thanks.
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  #19  
Old September 20th, 2007, 08:18 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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Yeah, that thing is dished pretty bad! As for the carbon build up, yeah that looks normal. If you aren't going to pull them out and clean them I would suggest using brake clean and either a scotchbrite or one of those 3m gasket cleaning discs. Make sure you clean the cylinder out real well afterwards though b/c you don't want gunk sitting in there scratching the cylinder walls. I use a small vacuum, clean rag and brake clean to clean all the bits and pieces out of there. Finally, you should squirt a little oil in each one around the rings to reduce start up wear btw the rings and cylinder walls.
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  #20  
Old September 21st, 2007, 09:22 AM
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Stephan Laputka
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Is it alright to reuse the head bolts or should I replace them?
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