Advance tdi timing... wow - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 21st, 2012, 12:54 PM
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steve
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Advance tdi timing... wow

I’d like to share one of the best things I have done to my 300tdi. One of the main reasons I did this was not power but for the white smoke when cold on overrun, it was billowing. I checked the normal stuff, even changed the injectors, which helped... But this finally fixed it.

I have done a few timing belt changes on 200's and 300's but never adjusted the timing beyond fitting the pins and bolting it up. Last week I finally started playing with advancing the timing and it made a huge noticeable difference in drivability. Best of all it was easy.


I had heard the tdi’s like to be slightly advanced, 2 degrees I think…. But without special tools there is no way to measure. I found some great info on the UK forums… here is what I did:

-Lock the motor a TDC at the flywheel
-Remove the 3 bolts at the timing inspection plate
- Fit the 9mm drill bit in to the timing hole (if you cant fit a 9mm, or if a 9mm is loose recorded what size you can fit tightly... that is just checking your timing)

-With the drill bit in the slot on the timing gear slacken the three bolts (10mm) on the timing gear. (DO NOT REMOVE THE BOLTS!)
-There is a big nut on the timing gear (21 or 22mm) take a wrench and move it just slightly clockwise. (there is really no force here just moving the pump slightly while the gear stays in place)
- While holding tension clockwise on the big nut remove the drill bit and fit a slightly smaller one.
-While still holding tension clockwise on the big nut against the smaller drill bit tighten the 3 10mm bolts holding the timing gear.

-Remove the locking pin on the flywheel

- Start her up.

This is the part that takes an ear. It is said there should be some diesel knock (when warm) when you deck the throttle. It took me a few times adjusting it, first time I did not advance enough. Next time I used a smaller bit and went too far and it sounded really clattery. Finally got it where is sounded ‘good’ when I hit the throttle. Small changes make a big difference.


Then took it for a drive and WOW. Made a huge difference off the line and on the highway. Much easier to cruise at 70. But the big thing for me was the white smoke when cold on overrun was almost completely gone. This made a huge difference for my truck but my timing must have been retarded.

For some of the diesel experts out there… how much diesel knock/clatter is too much on a 2/300tdi?
Any suggestions on how to do it better by ear?
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  #2  
Old February 21st, 2012, 02:49 PM
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Daniel Smith
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On my old IDI VW's I would set the timing to .95 mm advanced using a depth mic. The pump on my 300TDI has the same port, so I think I will set it using that also. They are all just Bosch VE pumps.

You can really change the power/economy of the engine with the timing. .80 mm would give better economy, but 1.00 mm would give better power.
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  #3  
Old February 21st, 2012, 04:01 PM
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1.6mm plunger lift is the magic figure.

The stock number is 1.54mm.
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  #4  
Old February 24th, 2012, 10:52 PM
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I always set my IDI VW to 1.0mm, as per turbo specs. Have you played with the smoke screw yet? I'm planning on shimming the governor spring in my 200tdi, just to keep the power up a bit longer. I'm good at using my right foot as a governor.
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  #5  
Old February 25th, 2012, 01:56 PM
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I have used a dial indicator in the past to set timing on a Bosch pump back to stock specs just not on a rover. It was really easy as long as you have the tool.
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  #6  
Old February 25th, 2012, 03:33 PM
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I noticed that the 200TDI and 300TDI manuals do give the timing lift value of 1.54 mm lift at T.D.C. Possibly more accurate than the timing pin method?
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  #7  
Old March 10th, 2012, 10:40 PM
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steve
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My dial indicator wont do squat for this (crappy short and wide)... anyone know if this would work for setting the timing properly?
http://www.toolwarehaus.com/BOSCH%20DIESEL%20TOOLS.asp
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  #8  
Old March 10th, 2012, 10:57 PM
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I would think it would work. I've just bought a similar adapter as I was interested in how close the pin method sets the timing. I'm out of town, but probably will try it out when I get back in a week or two.
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  #9  
Old March 11th, 2012, 10:59 AM
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I'm hopefully getting to this today although with all these options I am even more confused. Do I use the 300tdi timing kit by King Tools that I bought, do I use drill bits or should I order a dial indicator to set the timing?
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Old March 11th, 2012, 10:49 PM
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Red- I'd love to hear how it works.

Carl- Get the belt on with the tools and put it all back together. You can adjust it easily after its all running.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 10:54 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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Thanks! I'm almost there. I need to pick up a 1/2" extension so that I can tighten the belt then replace the timing cover gasket and I'm all good to go (speaking of... how to get the timing cover gasket off?). I don't think I had any timing issues before but I would like to hear more about dialing it in more accurately using that gauge.

If it needs to be adjusted I can leave the rad & intercooler while adjusting, right?
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  #12  
Old March 12th, 2012, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manimal View Post
If it needs to be adjusted I can leave the rad & intercooler while adjusting, right?

yep, but you may have to remove the fan shroud if you have one so you can reach the injection cover


id love to see a how to with pics , on timing adjustment with a dial indicator
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  #13  
Old March 15th, 2012, 08:02 PM
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I just put in a rebuilt injection pump and played with the timing a bit, is it normal for the 200tdi to get considerably louder as you advance the timing?
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Old March 15th, 2012, 10:15 PM
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Yes, it will get louder. As you advance there will be more knock. Don't go too far though as it will increase wear.
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  #15  
Old March 27th, 2012, 10:50 AM
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I'm getting ready to do this and I'm wondering what size drill bit you used to get you to your happy spot?

I figured I'd start there.
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Old May 30th, 2012, 11:52 PM
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So I can't stop thinking about this. How do you check to make sure that the timing is optimal? I replaced my timing belt recently and when doing so I noticed that the notch in the bell housing where the pin goes in was quite off center. Not off enough where the pin wouldn't go in but definitely not centered. The fuel pump pin however didn't have that problem. Does this mean the timing is off? How can you check to make sure that the timing is optimal? Just because I do the timing belt change by the book doesn't mean its not screwed up to begin with. What would it sound like or look like (in terms of smoke) if it was off? Did you try using the gauge yet to adjust the timing?
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Old May 31st, 2012, 02:06 AM
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Mike- No clue on the drill bit size. Once I started adjusting I ditched the bit and did it by feel.

Carl- I started to look into the gauge, but nothing came of it. I think they are relatively common, but doing it by ear is not that bad.
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  #18  
Old May 31st, 2012, 07:27 AM
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The flywheel notch should be centered in the hole. You can do it by eye. You could also use a dial gauge on the injection pump.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D90user View Post
Mike- No clue on the drill bit size. Once I started adjusting I ditched the bit and did it by feel.
I ended up doing the same thing, and enjoyed the same result. I think my timing was retarded a bit, perhaps belt stretch with the new belt. Runs great now!

What I experienced with the retarded timing was a lot of white smoke at startup and on the over run when cold.
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  #20  
Old June 1st, 2012, 01:31 PM
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It was not centered and I did two full rotations and it still didn't come up centered. Would it align eventually if I keep rotating it? Fuel pump and flywheel are synchronized, aren't they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90
The flywheel notch should be centered in the hole. You can do it by eye. You could also use a dial gauge on the injection pump.
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