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  #21  
Old June 1st, 2012, 01:36 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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I thought it was off because I had a lot more blue smoke at start up and when hitting the pedal while idling at start up. It may just have been moisture though since it has been parked in the rain quite a bit. Now it has dried up and it's less smoke at start up. Back to the normal black puff.

The problem with doing it by ear for me is that I don't know what "good" is supposed to sound like. Perhaps I will send you a recording to help me evaluate?

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Originally Posted by D90user
Carl- I started to look into the gauge, but nothing came of it. I think they are relatively common, but doing it by ear is not that bad.
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  #22  
Old October 13th, 2012, 07:14 PM
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Julien Dalbin
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With all those snapped timing belts lately, time to bring back this valuable thread.
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  #23  
Old October 14th, 2012, 07:22 PM
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Started my engine today after timing belt change, sounds good. The pin I used on the pump pulley is 9.40 mm diameter. What about having a couple of smaller pin made by a workshop, but with same diameter at the end (part that goes in casing) ?
What would be the diameters to use then to play with the timing ?
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  #24  
Old November 4th, 2012, 12:56 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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I never got around to making the timing adjustment. I'm trying to carve out some time for it next weekend. Has anyone been successful using a dial gauge? Seems like it would be easier to control and more accurate. I also like the idea of having pins made. When dealing with such small increments wouldn't it be more accurate if the end that goes into the pump is consistently snug? Anyone up for this?

A question related to timing adjustment: When I replaced my timing belt the notch in the bell housing was slightly off center when the pin in the fuel pump was fitted correctly and the timing marks on the camshaft pulley were aligned. I did a couple of full rotations but it would always end up slightly off when the camshaft marks were aligned. Eventually I managed to wiggle the timing pin into the bell housing even though it was off. Should I be concerned about this, does it need to be adjusted or should I leave it? It would involve getting the cover off and loosening the camshaft pulley, right? I have refrained from touching it since no one has mentioned it and no manuals talk about making this adjustment should the bell housing notch be off center.

If you think its fine I'll leave it and adjust the pump only.
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  #25  
Old November 4th, 2012, 01:11 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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How exactly? It would involve loosening and adjusting the camshaft pulley, right?

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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
The flywheel notch should be centered in the hole. You can do it by eye.
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  #26  
Old November 4th, 2012, 01:18 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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A question for Steve and anyone else who have done this already. I'm looking at buying a metric drill set. Looks like most come in .5MM increments. When you say "fit a smaller bit", are you using inserting an 8.5mm bit instead of a 9MM for example? Is .5MM small enough increments or should it be smaller?
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  #27  
Old November 5th, 2012, 08:44 AM
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Carl, put the bell housing pin in first then loosen the 3 bolts on the injector pump pulley to rotate it into position so the pin goes in and out of the hole smooth.. You should not have to force anything. Do not loosen up the bolts on the cam shaft...
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  #28  
Old November 5th, 2012, 10:40 AM
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Carl Jonsson
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Thanks. Sounds like a plan. I will make sure the bell housing notch is aligned first, then insert the pin in the bell housing then loosen the injection pump pulley and make sure that pin is aligned as well. Then I will start it up and give it a listen. If at that point it needs more fine tuning I will go about it using the method described in this thread.
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  #29  
Old November 5th, 2012, 04:19 PM
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What diameter is your pump pulley pin?
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  #30  
Old November 5th, 2012, 04:41 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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I have the timing kit from king tools. I can measure this weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFD
What diameter is your pump pulley pin?
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  #31  
Old November 18th, 2012, 04:40 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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Finally getting to this. My timing pin is 9.39MM. Metric bits usually are in .5MM increments (9.5, 9.0, 8.5MM etc).

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Originally Posted by JFD
What diameter is your pump pulley pin?
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  #32  
Old December 9th, 2012, 12:55 PM
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This method only advances the timing, right? What if the timing adjustment needs to be retarded (for the lack of a better term) beyond the stock timing pin?

I just made the adjustment from stock timing pin (9.4mm) to 8.5MM (drill bit) and it made it sound worse with more diesel knock. I suspect that the adjustments needs to be made entirely in the other direction and I don't think a 10MM bit would fit all the way in.

Before the adjustment I suspected that the timing was already too advanced as I have diesel knock to begin with. That is what I am trying to reduce.

Could it work if I held tension towards a 8.5MM drill bit in a counter-clockwise direction instead of a clockwise direction?

Any thoughts?
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  #33  
Old December 9th, 2012, 01:10 PM
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Watch out with it!!! I just broke my crankshaft a month ago and another friend of mine broke it a couple of days ago too. We kinda did blame it on advancing the pump too much. Also boost pressures could have had something to do as well.

Cheers,
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  #34  
Old December 9th, 2012, 01:25 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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I haven't driven it. Just started it up to listen.

Tell me if I'm smoking crack, but its possible to reset the timing to zero, right? By loosening the pump nuts while the timing pin is in the correct location then rotating the engine until the bell housing lines up with the hole. Then we're back to stock location right?
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  #35  
Old December 9th, 2012, 01:47 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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I think it may have worked.

I reset the timing (I think) as described in my post above then I replaced the stock timing pin (9.4MM) with an 8.5MM drill bit. Instead if applying clockwise pressure I applied pressure counter clockwise thus retarding the timing from its stock location.

The diesel knock is gone but my garage filled with white smoke.

I'm going to give it one more try. Instead of the 8.5MM drill bit I'm going to try the 9.2MM drill bit.

Someone should make a kit of pins in 0.25MM steps, 4 pins retarding the stock timing and 6 bits advancing the stock timing.
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  #36  
Old December 9th, 2012, 02:02 PM
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as I read it advancing the timing increases drivability but also increases the dieseling sound. White smoke is too far retarded.
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  #37  
Old December 9th, 2012, 02:13 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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Are you calling me retarded?

You're right but I think that my timing was too advanced to begin with. I suspect it has something to do with replacing the timing belt. The new belt was at lower tension and perhaps not as stretched out as the old one. After the belt change my diesel knock increased dramatically.

Another issue is that the drill bits aren't exact either. The 9MM bit is actually 9.4MM and so on, which is why it would be nice to have a kit that is exact and in 0.25MM increments.

Gotta call it a day but I will advance the timing next weekend and post a follow up.
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  #38  
Old December 9th, 2012, 02:37 PM
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Advancing the timing will increase noise, you definitely don't want a Tdi all nice and quiet at idle.

For factory settings you want the pin a snug fit, to know exactly where you are timing wise measure the plunger lift as I mentioned above (somewhere)

Belt tension must be set to the new, lower setting of 11Nm too (as outlined in a TSB) 15Nm as listed in the manual is too high and will probably cause then belt to wander and lunch itself.

As for breaking cranks as defyago mentioned, the ones I know of that have done this stem from big end failure. It seems some '98 build engines are prone to this, the bearing overlay delaminates and stress fractures. If your lucky you re-bearing the engine, but most I've heard of end in crank failure.
This isn't to be confused with most Tdi's needing new big ends from plain old wear around the 300,000km mark. Premium HD diesel oils seem to mitigate this.
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  #39  
Old December 9th, 2012, 03:11 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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Ok. So how much knock is too much knock?

You mentioned a plunger lift of 1.6MM but nothing about where or how to adjust it. How is that done?

I set my new belt tension to 11Nm. No idea what the previous belts tension was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdi-rick View Post
Advancing the timing will increase noise, you definitely don't want a Tdi all nice and quiet at idle.

For factory settings you want the pin a snug fit, to know exactly where you are timing wise measure the plunger lift as I mentioned above (somewhere)

Belt tension must be set to the new, lower setting of 11Nm too (as outlined in a TSB) 15Nm as listed in the manual is too high and will probably cause then belt to wander and lunch itself.

As for breaking cranks as defyago mentioned, the ones I know of that have done this stem from big end failure. It seems some '98 build engines are prone to this, the bearing overlay delaminates and stress fractures. If your lucky you re-bearing the engine, but most I've heard of end in crank failure.
This isn't to be confused with most Tdi's needing new big ends from plain old wear around the 300,000km mark. Premium HD diesel oils seem to mitigate this.
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  #40  
Old December 9th, 2012, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manimal View Post
Ok. So how much knock is too much knock?
Listening to it is not the best test. Idle sound means nothing. You need to be under load. "Heavy" knocking under full throttle is the "bad" noise.

Drive it. It is revs freely to the governor, then you are not too advanced.
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