Adjustable Panhard Rod with Heim Joints - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old October 15th, 2004, 01:16 AM
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Adjustable Panhard Rod with Heim Joints

Just wondering if anyone on the list has any experience using an adjustable length panhard rod with heim jointed ends. I've spoken to RoverTracks a bit about it, and would like to get any info I can before trying it out. My purpose in doing this is twofold: 1. to correct the panhard length for lift and 2. to eliminate the panhard rod bushings which keep wearing out.
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  #2  
Old October 15th, 2004, 09:19 AM
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Yousef Hamzeh
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The only reason I added Heimed panhard rod is because I wanted to get full travel out of the front.
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Old October 15th, 2004, 03:34 PM
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Yousef,

Have you noticed anything different in driving? Onroad do feel a difference in steering precision, noise, looseness? Offroad does it provide more articulation? Are you satisfied with it?

Thanks for your feedback.
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Old October 15th, 2004, 03:53 PM
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More travel out of a panhard rod with a heim joint? That doesn't make any sense. Maybe I am missing something but ther lateral movement is almost nothing, the bushing would absorb that and more. Durability I can see, but travel, huh.
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Old October 15th, 2004, 04:17 PM
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David,

In terms of travel, I was thinking more with respect to being able to adjust the panhard length so it matches your lift. With any lift, the panhard becomes too short so the axle is preloaded to the driver's side. I don't know - does this make any difference? How important is it to have the proper length panhard rod? Do the spherical bearings in the heim joints free up any binding that the rubber bushings have or do they have too much free movement and cause other problems?

I agree though that durability appears to be the main advantage.
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  #6  
Old October 15th, 2004, 04:31 PM
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Yousef Hamzeh
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Believe it or not but I can max out my 14" travel shocks up front with the new panhard. The front end became looser that I almost have even articulation front to rear even with the coil overs in the back.

On the street I'm getting a wobble between 45-55 mph and not sure what’s causing it though. It could be the beadlocks but won't know till I get the new wheels on.

With the heims on I noticed that the front end dives a lot when turning, but as far noise I didn't notice any but then my D90 is as loud as they can get.
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Old October 15th, 2004, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwisteD90
but as far noise I didn't notice any but then my D90 is as loud as they can get.
Hmmmm, I don't think it's that loud, even with the 37s it is pretty quiet. Comparing it to my close to stock front end (lifted but not 3 link), it drives pretty nice other then the wobble, it does have a slightly more vague feel to it though.
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Old October 15th, 2004, 05:37 PM
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Yousef,

Did you not max it out before? I max out 14in coilovers with the stock panhard rod. Ryan, as to the lenth, the way to fix this is to raise the lower mount or drop the upper mount. Not make the rod longer. When you do that when the suspension compresses the axle will be forced to one side with the longer rod putting pressure on the links, and shocks. A little pressure is no big deal, a lot can rip off the rod, bend brackets, or even move the entire axle, although that last one almost never happens as something else gives first.
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Old October 15th, 2004, 06:41 PM
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David,

Thanks. That makes total sense to me. The least amount of lateral axle movement would be with the panhard rod mounted horizontally (which is probably about where it is before a lift). So yeah, I'm going to look at moving one of the mounts. Still not sure about the heims though. I drive a lot on the road, and really don't want to make the handling any worse than it already is.
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Old October 16th, 2004, 08:14 AM
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Ryan, how much of a lift do you have?
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  #11  
Old October 16th, 2004, 11:23 PM
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ryan,

i'm running an adjustable panhard (1.5" DOM) w/ the stock bushings .once you correct the panhard lenght for your lift, you will no longer go through bushing. one of the best mods i've done.
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Old October 17th, 2004, 05:40 PM
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Randy - Not sure exactly how much lift since I never measured it stock. But I'd guess around 2-3".

Marc - Thanks. That's actually the main thing that prompted this question - I've worn out my panhard bushings again. Who made your DOM panhard rod?
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Old October 17th, 2004, 05:59 PM
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With 2-3 there is really no reason to mess with the rod. If the bushings are wearing out there must be another cause. Do you get vibration alot??
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Old October 17th, 2004, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Sakurada

Marc - Thanks. That's actually the main thing that prompted this question - I've worn out my panhard bushings again. Who made your DOM panhard rod?
actually, i made the rod. it's really similar to the rovertracks rod, in that i needed it to clear a sewer cap diff cover, but it's adjustable w/ factory bushings.
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Old October 17th, 2004, 08:41 PM
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I agree with David, with only 2-3" of lift I don't think you would see a shift in the axle. If you do relocate the mounting bracket be sure to keep the drag link and panhard rod as parallel as possible or you will develop bump steer. My hiem jointed panhard has reduced the amount of lateral play as a result of worn out bushings.

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  #16  
Old October 17th, 2004, 11:02 PM
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Good point Tis, It only took 15 posts before this was mentioned. Ryan, a lift will always shift the axle to the drivers side. This will cause some bind in the two front bushings on the forward end of stock control arms. By returning the axle to center, will help reduce this binding. Im sure you understand the physics of bumpsteer. So if you change the angle of your panhard rod---you should match the angle with the draglink. Steve over at rovertym is confidant that his adjustable panhards will help return some of the lost axle range brought on by lifts. Call him for more test provin advise Rock on JP.
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Old October 18th, 2004, 01:31 PM
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The main reason I use hiems on my panhard rods is simplicity, and adjustability.
Along with that you get a nice positive feel on the road as the front end doesn’t move around any longer, I’m guessing that unless you plan on running your truck in a road race you wouldn’t notice it much…
Eliminating the bushings will allow for easier movement, but as Dave pointed out the movement of the bar is pretty minimal.
The reason I make the rods the way I do is to get them up and out of the way and to clear a Sewer cap… I could use an OEM rod parts to do the same thing, it is a good idea but this would require an exchange system that would be a pain for most folks.
While it doesn’t seem like it is a very vulnerable part I have seen several that have been taco’d. The Disco has a custom one in the stock location made of some heavy material and it has taken quite a few hits… I will be replaceing it soon with one of the new design.


Redoing the mounting works well too but as mentioned one needs to be aware of the Drag link angle.

As to what it did for Yousef’s truck… I don’t understand why but it did flex much better with the new rod installed..
On a geometric note, if you lifted your truck six inches you would need to extend the panhard rod only about a half inch to return the axle to center..

Thoughts and opinions for what they're worth..

Keith
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  #18  
Old October 18th, 2004, 09:22 PM
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Thanks everyone for all the info!

David - I'm not sure what kind of vibration you're referring to. I am getting the early signs of the death wobble.

Tis/JP - Thanks for the heads-up on the panhard/drag link relationship. Sounds like it would be simplest to just adjust the length of the panhard. But the compromise is what David mentioned in having more side load when the suspension is compressed. For a 1/4" difference in panhard length (based on Keith's numbers) maybe this isn't a big deal?

I see that Rovertym has an adjustable panhard on their website. I'm sure I'll also be talking to Keith about it some more as well.
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  #19  
Old October 18th, 2004, 10:12 PM
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Hey yousef, I know you run a 3link. Do you have the diff pointed way up to work with a double cardan shaft? There is alot of twist forced into the stock panhard bushings when the diff is cranked up. adding the new heim ends must really free up the rod . If you look at the effect of turning up the diff say 30 deg, you can really see how much pressure is added to the bushings on the drag link.JP
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Old October 20th, 2004, 01:19 PM
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My pinion is parallel to the ground since I'm running multi double cardan DS. So there is no pressure on any thing.
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