95 Classic idle issues since MAR - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old November 11th, 2014, 11:24 PM
UKmtrsp
Status: Offline
Chip
95 RR Classic
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Richmond
Posts: 186
95 Classic idle issues since MAR

Looking for a little advice on a 14CUX system. Rode the trails Friday and Saturday with no issues. Cold night into Sunday morning. Started fine as usual Sunday to go for one last trail ride. During warm-up I noticed some variation in the idle...searching a little. Seemed fine though once out on the ride. Drive home to Richmond mostly 70-75 mph no problems. Mostly OK over the past few weeks with just slight idle blips once warmed up...however it has gotten much worse and more frequent over the past 10 days. Symptoms have changed a little though...starts just fine and has good warm-up idle when cold, but starts to struggle to stay running once warm...idle is up and down...sometimes cutting off. Once moving over 35-40 mph the truck seems to run fine until coming to a stop where it begins to stumble. Small hesitations at slow speeds. Seems to pull fine under load and coming off of idle. Haven't noticed any issues with gas mileage.

No CEL

To this point I have cleaned and lubed the IAC motor, replaced the motor with new, replaced the motor with good used from a 91, cleaned the throttle body, cleaned the MAF, disconnected the battery many times to reset the system, checked for vacuum leaks, reset the pickup air gap, checked connectors at the distributor and temp sensor. I intend on checking the connections for the ignition amplifier in the morning...on the 95 its located next to the coil tucked under the upper left radiator bracket. I have a 91 that I can test parts from as well.

Thoughts and suggestions are welcome...

Thanks, Chip
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old November 12th, 2014, 03:57 AM
Rocky's Avatar
Rocky
Status: Offline
Chris
72 + D1 drivetrain
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colonies Aka Boston
Posts: 8,768
Swap the water temp sensors over.
__________________
A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old November 12th, 2014, 08:23 AM
UKmtrsp
Status: Offline
Chip
95 RR Classic
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Richmond
Posts: 186
Update: Drove my son to school this morning...conditions damp, foggy, about 60deg...RR started and ran like crap immediately...did not want to idle and cut off couple of times while I was getting him in the truck. Once in gear and moving symptoms were less. After warm-up symptoms were even better. Stopped to fill the tank as I was on about 1/8th...noticed no hissing when I began to loosen the filler cap...filled and drove back home 1 mile or so...once home idle searching and low with inconsistent popping missing sound from the exhaust. Will be trying different stuff this morning...ie swapping parts.

Chip
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old November 12th, 2014, 09:04 AM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Offline
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,833
Registry
throwing any codes ? Any rattles in your exhaust ?
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old November 12th, 2014, 10:07 AM
o2batsea's Avatar
o2batsea
Status: Online
Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kensington md
Posts: 6,498
Registry
My .02:
You describe classic symptoms of a failing ignition amplifier module. That would be my first suspect, especially since you say the poor running is worse in damp conditions.
Another thing which may or may not be happening, since I can't recall if the 95 has the fitting for the temp sensor in the upper radiator hose, is a coolant leak onto one or more ignition components. I have had (and have now) a leaking coolant temp sender that drips onto the dizzy and into the amplifier. Since I'm so lazy I just have a bunch of paper towel stuffed under it and that keeps the diz dry for now.
Do you have the ball looking vacuum accumulator thing? Those can fail and give you a vacuum leak.
One other tip, replace all the rubber air/vac hoses with silicone hose from McMaster Carr. It won't rot and give you grief.
__________________
Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 12th, 2014, 10:11 AM
Z.G's Avatar
Z.G
Status: Online
Zack
300Tdi 95 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Burlington, VT
Posts: 4,669
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Swap the water temp sensors over.
+1 worth a shot every time
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old November 12th, 2014, 12:35 PM
UKmtrsp
Status: Offline
Chip
95 RR Classic
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Richmond
Posts: 186
Not familiar with +1...is fuel system conditioner?...can you enlighten me...thanks
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old November 12th, 2014, 12:59 PM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Offline
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,833
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKmtrsp View Post
Not familiar with +1...is fuel system conditioner?...can you enlighten me...thanks
means he agree's with Rocky's post
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old November 12th, 2014, 02:17 PM
UKmtrsp
Status: Offline
Chip
95 RR Classic
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Richmond
Posts: 186
Thanks Doug...got it...a little slow...immersed in a quandary! Missed you at MAR..did you make it?

After lunch update...swapped coil, MAF, ign module...no improvement...MAF didn't seem compatible as I believe the 95's have gold contacts and a differing resistance.

Drove it to lunch and tried to make further observations...again seems to run well above 1500rpm, about 40mph....anything around 20-30mph will produce a surging...will sometimes shut off when coming to a stop, mainly from higher revs. Idle is low and inconsistent...with some slight popping or missing audible from the exhaust.

No codes or CEL

fuel pump sounds smooth and consistent...although could bad fuel cause/contribute to poor running at lower revs and no issues at speed?

I will be swapping out the temp sensor next.

Chip
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old November 12th, 2014, 02:45 PM
o2batsea's Avatar
o2batsea
Status: Online
Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kensington md
Posts: 6,498
Registry
You have an air leak somewhere.
__________________
Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old November 12th, 2014, 04:12 PM
UKmtrsp
Status: Offline
Chip
95 RR Classic
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Richmond
Posts: 186
Bill and group,

thats makes some sense to me...vacuum gauge check shows about 16...a little low considering the timing is bumped a little...sprayed a little carb cleaner around...could not find the sweet spot, however it may have swelled the valley gasket some as it seems to be a little smoother...I also bumped the base idle a little to compensate...not looking forward to a valley gasket job, but probably spent more time swapping parts and checking other stuff.

I will get my 91 up and running and see what the vacuum gauge says....apples to oranges, but may be enough of a comparison to confirm leak issue. I will also run as is for the next few days to see if any symptoms change.

I will update once work is done.

Thanks for the help and suggestions,

Chip
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old November 12th, 2014, 07:47 PM
UKmtrsp
Status: Offline
Chip
95 RR Classic
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Richmond
Posts: 186
Ok, the 91 shows about the same 16 at idle on the vacuum gauge. I am sure that if I backed off the timing and turned the base idle screw back to where it was the 95 would be below 16. Its driveable as it is at the moment, but I do think I have the beginnings of a manifold leak. pinching off the hoses makes no difference. Looks as though I need to schedule sometime to work on my own vehicle. Follow up in a week or so...

Chip
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old November 12th, 2014, 08:01 PM
Jonesy's Avatar
Jonesy
Status: Offline
Craig
87 D110 (Ruby)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,445
Registry
Tps ?
__________________
"The difference between stupidity and genius, is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old November 12th, 2014, 08:11 PM
Nomar's Avatar
Nomar
Status: Offline
Jeff B
RR HNTR,RR LWB Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Central,Virginia
Posts: 4,290
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKmtrsp View Post
Ok, the 91 shows about the same 16 at idle on the vacuum gauge. I am sure that if I backed off the timing and turned the base idle screw back to where it was the 95 would be below 16. Its driveable as it is at the moment, but I do think I have the beginnings of a manifold leak. pinching off the hoses makes no difference. Looks as though I need to schedule sometime to work on my own vehicle. Follow up in a week or so...

Chip
Hey Chip, go around and just check that the intake bolts are tight---these are notorious for coming loose over time. I have seen some only finger tight before.


.
__________________


Real Rovers have round headlights!
Rent my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
!
Just a few miles from 4x4 access!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old November 12th, 2014, 08:39 PM
UKmtrsp
Status: Offline
Chip
95 RR Classic
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Richmond
Posts: 186
Jeff,

I was thinking about trying to retorque them in the morning...it might buy me a little time.

Also going up to the DC Happy Hour next Thursday...having a cold one and purchasing a Cat Back exhaust from another Rover enthusiast...Any interest in joining us? Not sure of the location yet.

Chip
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old November 12th, 2014, 10:24 PM
carlosz's Avatar
carlosz
Status: Offline
Carlos
frank stein "frankie" in action RIP
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: east coast
Posts: 961
Registry
Use a scanner or rover gauge to look at the sensors, and scilloscope will help narrow primary ignition issues and do not forget to replace your fuel filter and measure the fuel pressure.
Don't hunt for a ghost, diagnose before repair not he other way around.
__________________
the truck ran like a "raped ape"
A fussy warm weather creature...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old November 12th, 2014, 10:48 PM
UKmtrsp
Status: Offline
Chip
95 RR Classic
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Richmond
Posts: 186
Carlos,

Thanks, I'm on it. I'm looking into getting a cable for Rovergauge shortly. as for other test equipment, vac gauge, timing light, multimeter, wideband o2 unit....don't have a scope...so sometimes its do your best with what you've got, or what others are willing to lend you in the way of equipment, good advice, or personal experience such as yourself. I appreciate it

Chip
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old November 21st, 2014, 01:57 PM
UKmtrsp
Status: Offline
Chip
95 RR Classic
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Richmond
Posts: 186
Problem found!

A quick look at the parameters with Charles (Rovergauge) and Jonesy last evening showed that my TPS was way off...reading something like 70% at idle when it should be below 10. A quick unplug and the motor idled right into spec. I am on the hunt for a good used flat 3pin unit and should secure one soon hopefully.

I had a thought in the meantime wouldn't it be possible to elongate the mounting holes a bit and turn it slightly in order to get off the possible bad spot on the potentiometer grid....if thats all thats wrong....just as a temporary fix.....15% would be certainly better than telling the ECU 70%

Chip...On the trail of a TPS
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old November 22nd, 2014, 06:44 PM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Offline
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,522
Registry
was the idle surging at all?
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old November 22nd, 2014, 08:22 PM
UKmtrsp
Status: Offline
Chip
95 RR Classic
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Richmond
Posts: 186
Yes at times it would surge....maybe 20% of the time....what are you thinking ?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
95, classic, idle

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Idle Issues: TPS? scolvus.x Defender Technical Discussions 10 August 24th, 2013 03:13 PM
Idle Control Valve (idle stepper motor) fleabus For Sale - Parts 3 June 28th, 2009 12:13 AM
Since there are some MTB. riders here devinchi Misc. Chit-Chat 11 September 29th, 2007 02:00 PM
Since We're Talking Tires? saber6 Misc. Chit-Chat 7 December 3rd, 2005 10:01 PM
Since I am here in the UK..... whitelandy Defender Technical Discussions 35 September 24th, 2004 11:35 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:23 PM.


Copyright