'94 Disco auto transmission problem - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old October 23rd, 2005, 11:04 PM
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Charles Galpin
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'94 Disco auto transmission problem

Has anyone seen anything like this? I was wheeling this weekend and was shifting between the lowest drive gear and the "normal" drive relatively frequently to improve gear ratios. Pretty much out of the blue it no longer comes out of first gear. So I can shift from park to reverse to neutral to drive and the subsequent lower drive gears just fine, except all drive gears are the same as the lowest drive gear. At 2K rpm I can can go 5mph in low range, 15mph in high

Fluid level is fine. Am I screwed? I'll be puilling the pan and filter to see if anything glaring shows up, but taking it to a shop is gonna cost me just to get it there.

IF I need to replace this thing, does this look like a good deal?

http://www.phoenixhardparts.com/brow...ver-4HP22.HTML

charles
p.s. This tranny happens to be in my '94 D90, but that shouldn't matter.
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  #2  
Old October 24th, 2005, 08:17 AM
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David Marchand
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Check the fluid. What color is it and does it smell at all?

I'd pull the cover, check for anything and swap in a new filter for kicks.

When I replaced mine a few years ago, I had one delivered from Eriksson . They are in CT and stand behind their stuff. Also very helpful on the phone. But resorting to a replacement should be the last thing you do.
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  #3  
Old October 24th, 2005, 09:07 AM
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Charles Galpin
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Fluid looks fine - I changed it less than 3K miles ago so it looks like new (red) and no unusual smell. Not trying to replace it, but just want to be aware of the worst case.

charles
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  #4  
Old October 24th, 2005, 07:46 PM
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Seems to me that it's smething to do with the linkage, I would give that a look over first.
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Old October 24th, 2005, 09:14 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Hey Mike! Good to see you got out on the trial again! I went wheeling at Paragon for the first time this weekend and had a blast (outside of my tranny issue).

Nothing looks amiss. On my rig, the shifter just transposes the forward and backward motion to a lever on the side of the transmission that faces downward, but has the same forward and backward movement. Dead simple. I have checked the movement and it appears to shift through all gears properly. I will disconnect the linkage and try it manually as well to be sure.

What I have not looked at is the kickdown cable to see if that could be a factor. Probably won't have time to look at this until the weekend

thanks
charles
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  #6  
Old October 25th, 2005, 08:41 AM
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  #7  
Old October 25th, 2005, 03:41 PM
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Dave Ashcroft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin
Has anyone seen anything like this? I was wheeling this weekend and was shifting between the lowest drive gear and the "normal" drive relatively frequently to improve gear ratios. Pretty much out of the blue it no longer comes out of first gear. So I can shift from park to reverse to neutral to drive and the subsequent lower drive gears just fine, except all drive gears are the same as the lowest drive gear. At 2K rpm I can can go 5mph in low range, 15mph in high

Fluid level is fine. Am I screwed? I'll be puilling the pan and filter to see if anything glaring shows up, but taking it to a shop is gonna cost me just to get it there.

IF I need to replace this thing, does this look like a good deal?

http://www.phoenixhardparts.com/brow...ver-4HP22.HTML

charles
p.s. This tranny happens to be in my '94 D90, but that shouldn't matter.
Hi,

this is copied from an FAQ on our web site, I know you are describing something a little different but it still may be the gov valve sticking, this is what causes it to stay in 1st gear,

"I have a 4 speed ZF Auto and it sticks in first gear in the morning or when cold and is reluctant to change up from 1st gear. Once the gearbox has warmed up it shifts normally. Why?

The governor valve is sticking, which can be caused by contamination. i.e. clutch plates or other parts disintegrating. The fine debris finds its way past the filter and tends to accumulate in the governor, causing it to stick. A temporary solution is to remove and clean the governor. The problem will often recur as debris from damaged parts continues to build up in the governor. If the problem continues after cleaning the governor then it may be necessary it replace your Autobox.
We have noticed many customers reporting this fault starting a few days after an oil and filter change and after researching this using our experience and the expertise of others in the trade we have come to the conclusion that as ATF oil is a detergent type oil, when the oil is changed this will dislodge and stir up settled debris in the autobox which in turn jams the governor valve. In light of this although it sounds controversial it is debateable if changing the oil and filter is a good idea, some say if the box it going to fail it will fail if the oil is good or bad and their advice is leave it alone. I am still undecided but the truth is I get a lot of calls from customers thinking they are looking after the autobox by servicing it and a few days later this fault occurs."

Dave
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  #8  
Old October 26th, 2005, 11:45 AM
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Charles Galpin
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Hi Dave

Thanks for that! Very interesting. Does anyone have links to resources that show some technical details on the '94 discovery transmission (like where the governor valve is for example)? I'd like to do some homework before the weekend when I'll have time to take a look at it.

thanks,
charles
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  #9  
Old October 26th, 2005, 11:46 AM
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Sounds like good advice Dave. I have seen this problem after filter changes. But it does not stop me from doing further filter changes. What I have done is let the transmission warm up enough to shift. I put the shifter in the number two position. Drive the vehicle upwards of 25-30 mile per hour and allow it to shift into second gear. Then I try to blow everything up. Full throttle to engage kickdown. Let it shift up again and full throttle again for kickdown. And a few more times. This part of the transmission circuit will clean out any debris in the govenor seals.

Big socks needed for this procedure.
JP

Here is your govenor
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  #10  
Old October 26th, 2005, 12:00 PM
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Robert Dassler
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Hey Jim,
Nice Photo! I have seen problems with the 3 governor seals deteriorating and causing intermittent shifting problems and lack of engagement. I spoke with ZF about it directly when I was at the Dealer...they told me that the seals in question will deteriorate if anything other than Dexron is used. In all of the cars I had problems with, the owners had been using synthetics. The seals aren't available separately from LR but you can find a generic rebuild kit for a ZF4HP22 as used in Lincolns or BMWs and get the seals.
Rob
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  #11  
Old October 26th, 2005, 12:52 PM
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I was told the same by Cityside not to switch to synthetic. Glad I didn't. So much for synthetic ATF being compatible with regular!
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  #12  
Old January 16th, 2006, 05:13 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Hi Jim

Better late than never, I finally found time to take a look. I had to pull the exhaust and cross member to get the transmission pan / filter off though Nothing looks amiss. There was some very fine metal paste on the plug, but other than that it looked fine to me.

So, I guess I'm yanking the transfer case next to check out the governor. Can you please explain the phrase "Big socks needed for this procedure."? I assume this is in reference to the heavy foot needed, but just want to be sure. I did roughly this already with no change to my situation.

thanks
charles


Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
Sounds like good advice Dave. I have seen this problem after filter changes. But it does not stop me from doing further filter changes. What I have done is let the transmission warm up enough to shift. I put the shifter in the number two position. Drive the vehicle upwards of 25-30 mile per hour and allow it to shift into second gear. Then I try to blow everything up. Full throttle to engage kickdown. Let it shift up again and full throttle again for kickdown. And a few more times. This part of the transmission circuit will clean out any debris in the govenor seals.

Big socks needed for this procedure.
JP

Here is your govenor
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  #13  
Old July 23rd, 2006, 03:29 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Now what?

Ok, i must be setting a record for the slowest repair here. I finally found time to pull the transfer case this weekend. Now what?

How can I tell if the governor valve was stuck? Everything is clean and moves freely, but I admint I have not clue what I am looking for. Yes, thanks to Pendy's pivture I do know what the governor looks like

It was a fair effort pulling the transfer case on my own so I think putting it back on will be a 2 man job for sure. Im just using a floor jack so getting it to line up is going to be a pita. I'm so far into being able to remove the transmission itslef now, I am wondering if it's really worth trying to put this all back together again to see if anything has changed.

Thoughts?

Anyone in the DC area want to help me put a transfer case back in? :D

charles
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  #14  
Old July 24th, 2006, 01:02 PM
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Charles I have put a few T-case's in on my own, it is a ROYAL PITA!!!! I have a jack adapter (home made) that I use to hold the T-case to the jack, it holds it in the same position as it is installed. If you don't mind doing a little extra work to save some aggravation you can pull the input gear to the T-case out, install the t-case then install the input gear. This makes it MUCH easier to install the T-case, specially if you are on unlevel; ground (anything but a cement floor).
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  #15  
Old July 24th, 2006, 01:26 PM
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Mine ('94 also) seemed to stick in first from time to time under light throttle.

Performed Pendy's Patented Italian Tune Up a few times and all has been well for a while now.

Good Luck,

KAA
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  #16  
Old July 24th, 2006, 09:21 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hippert
Charles I have put a few T-case's in on my own, it is a ROYAL PITA!!!! I have a jack adapter (home made) that I use to hold the T-case to the jack, it holds it in the same position as it is installed. If you don't mind doing a little extra work to save some aggravation you can pull the input gear to the T-case out, install the t-case then install the input gear. This makes it MUCH easier to install the T-case, specially if you are on unlevel; ground (anything but a cement floor).
Ooof, that sounds like a bigger pita. Any idea if it would be any easier to put the tranny and t-case combo in in one shot (with help)? I have pretty much resigned myself to having to get a hand anyway. I haven't pulled the transmission yet, but in the past this has been relatively easy on other vehicles. Just a lot of weight there!

You busy this sunday Mike?

charles
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  #17  
Old July 25th, 2006, 01:50 PM
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LOL, I think I might be free Sunday :P

To get the tranny out is a bit more work. The Jimmy and I did it on his and the easiest way I have been told is to remove the floor and seat boxes, that way you have enough room to get to all the bolts on the tranns. You can get to them without removing the floors, it is just a good bit harder, it is also harder when removing the entire setup. Also keep in mind if you drop the tranns you have to remove the cross member under it, that can be a pain in itself. Is there any need to remove the tranns? If not I say leave it!
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  #18  
Old July 25th, 2006, 01:59 PM
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Ok, I'll consider yanking the seat boxes/floor.

The whole problem here is the transmission. Unless I can figure out whats wrong with it (see the start of this thread), I'm out of options other than replacing it.

This is an auto, so just to remove the pan and repalce the filter I had to pull both the exhaust and cross member already

Afaik, I have a linkage and some bell housing bolts and the tranny's out.

Looking to get a used tranny on saturday. Tell me I'm not crazy.

charles
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  #19  
Old July 27th, 2006, 10:13 AM
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Have you checked the seal on the Governor?
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  #20  
Old July 27th, 2006, 10:20 AM
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Charles Galpin
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I really don't know what to check for

There are 2 o-rings on the shaft and the governor slides over them. it was spinning freely, came off with enough resistance to feel good and I don't see any signs of problems with them.

The governor itself is a simple thing. one side has a counterweight and the other side a little whel on a shaft that slides up and down. I have not disassenbled this as everything moves freely and I can't see a seal from the side (which has an opening you can see most of the internals though). Should I disassemble this?

charles
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