93 D110 auto transmission conversion - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old June 5th, 2007, 07:30 PM
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Brent Frazier
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From experience, I would strongly suggest you not put a ZF4 behind a 3.9 in a 110. I can't wait till mine comes out. My 4.2 is in the machine shop right now. We are doing custom pistons at 20 over, Crower cam, 10 bolt heads and some other goodies in anticipation of 280lb ft. Converting to serp. belt sans power robbing clutch fan and will have one honey of a mill under the hood when done.


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  #22  
Old June 5th, 2007, 10:11 PM
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Arthur Maravelis
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Either the Vortec 4.3V6 or 5.7V8 will work. I've seen a 5.7 fitted to a Blazer and am told the truck gets 20+ mpg city. If I can get the 4.3 to do "substantially" better I'd prefer it. By substantial I mean 24. That setup is with the electronic version of the 700R4 which I have no problem using.

My truck is a people mover and not an off roader so convenience (auto) is what I need. The Tdi is a real pain in Boston traffic.

Of course, we all know the RR with the 4.3 but I don't recall if that was ever successfully finished. Its owner did say it had pep. Yep, that's what I need.
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  #23  
Old June 6th, 2007, 07:45 AM
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Robert Courtney
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Overwhelming advice has got me leaning to not doing the swap. I am going to start fishing around for the right diesel. Thanks for all the help
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  #24  
Old June 6th, 2007, 10:39 AM
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Arthur Maravelis
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So, you want the conversion to be: cost effective, not complex. You won't find it in a diesel.

Consider the following:

1. diesel costs about the same as regular gas. You can run these GM motors on regular.

2. max city mpg with diesel may be 25, versus 20 for gas. Do you drive enough to get that back?

3. better heat from a gas. Good to have in NY.

4. these GM motors are cheap to find and cheap to maintain.


While I realize there is an allure to owning a diesel, practicality wins out for a gas conversion - in this case (auto). Go ahead and do the research. I'll be very surprised if you find something that wotks.

So, who wants to buy a 110 300 Tdi with 80K miles, Eberspacher, Epsom Green? I'm better off selling this one and building a gas version from scratch - on that shiny new V8 frame sitting in the garage for 5 years now.
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  #25  
Old June 6th, 2007, 10:43 AM
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Charles Galpin
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This thread brings tears to my eyes. I am pretty sure it's out of my price range, but I'll go ahead and ask anyway.

How much Art?

charles
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  #26  
Old June 6th, 2007, 10:53 AM
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David Marchand
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Let's talk Art. I'm interested.

As far as diesel pricing, I paid $2.81 here yesterday.

Not that fuel savings ever pays for it.
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  #27  
Old June 6th, 2007, 11:03 AM
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Arthur Maravelis
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Before I start something I can't finish (selling the 110), let me explore a replacement before things go any further.

Didn't mean to tease anyone just yet.
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  #28  
Old June 6th, 2007, 11:06 AM
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David Marchand
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I have a 30K '04 Bonatti disco that would work as a "replacement".

It is a creampuff.

Seriously though, add me to the top of your contact list.
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  #29  
Old June 6th, 2007, 11:33 AM
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Loic Fabro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin
This thread brings tears to my eyes. I am pretty sure it's out of my price range, but I'll go ahead and ask anyway.

How much Art?

charles
Probably one or two zeros to the price of your engine replacement cost! ;-)
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  #30  
Old June 6th, 2007, 04:31 PM
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Art - I'm very skeptical that you'll get 20+ mpg from one of those gas engines in a stock 110. I did a quick search for the 4.3 Vortec, and it's seems the EPA rating was generally 16-20 mpg in the GM trucks and Envoy. This was for 2WD. I read a report from a police officer who said that his Envoy would only get 16 mpg hwy. Consider also that you're putting the engine in something that has no aerodynamics and full-time 4WD. You can't do much about the aero (other than drive slower), but have you considered going to part-time 4WD? Or, since you're not concerned about offroad capability, take it to the extreme and take the driveshaft directly out of the 700R4 to the rear diff, and don't run a TC. And run a tube front axle and small dia street tires. I just think you're going to have to do more to achieve the mileage goals you're looking for.

BTW, here's my real world mileage from 3 different engines I've had in the 110 (let's hope there's not a 4th):
Stock 3.9 with LT77 = 13-15 mpg
6.5 GM Diesel with NV4500 = 15-18
2.8 Diesel with ZF = 20-22 mpg (only about 2K miles of data so far)

To me, the real advantage of the diesel is being able to run on WVO. I'm already collecting it, and the cost is in cents rather than dollars.
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  #31  
Old June 6th, 2007, 07:24 PM
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Arthur Maravelis
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Ryan,

1. I've read up on S10 V8 conversions and the mpg reported is around 20+ city, 25+ hwy. That's from several sources and all with the 4L50E. The Vortec/4L50E combo is very well matched for performance and economy. Granted, a Blazer is lighter than a 110, and an Envoy I think is more like it, but if I can get 20 mpg on average I'll take it.

2. I'd like to convert to part time but don't want to totally ditch the TC. I will switch to a taller TC.

3. Right now I'm running my stock D90 alloys and tires on it and don't want to switch.

4. Your 2.8/ZF mpg is good but is it gutless? If the performance is comparable to the Tdi/R380 then I consider that gutless.

5. WVO is not an option for me. I can afford gas and want to enjoy my vehicles, not put up with their shortcomings. Of course, we're talking Rovers here so some shortcomings go with the territory. Gutless performance should not be one of them.
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  #32  
Old June 6th, 2007, 08:15 PM
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Robert Courtney
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Art,

I'm with you on a few things here. I didn't buy a LR for fuel mileage. They are for fun. The idea of going auto is for convienence but not at the expense of robbing too much power that you can't make where your going before your next birthday.
The idea of a diesel is purely for fun. The thought of re-enacting the last CT run with only your head above water is rather enticing. Of course actually owning the vehicle that your submarineing might be a whole other thing.

Bob
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  #33  
Old June 6th, 2007, 08:46 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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I had a '96 blazer with the 4.3 vortec and 4l60e and it was nothing to get excited about (fuel mileage or pickup wise). I would not recommend this combo in a 110 personally. It may be slightly better than stock but why spend all that money and time and have something that is only a half step better?
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  #34  
Old June 6th, 2007, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm

5. WVO is not an option for me. I can afford gas and want to enjoy my vehicles, not put up with their shortcomings. Of course, we're talking Rovers here so some shortcomings go with the territory. Gutless performance should not be one of them.
Art - You got me confused on this last item. If you're not concerned about the price of gas, then why are you chasing this 20+ mpg so hard? If it's just range, then it'd be easier just to add more fuel capacity. I'm sure you can get the performance you want if you weren't also looking for 20+ mpg. Maybe something like the TVR 5.0 that I think Doug Walker has or ECR's Interceptor 5.2 would be a lot less work than an engine/trans swap.

Regarding the 2.8/ZF vs the 300Tdi/R380, I'm not sure how they compare in terms of sluggishness. I haven't driven the 300Tdi/R380 combo so I can't make a comparison. But I may have an opportunity in the near future so I'll let you know after I've driven both. The 6.5/NV4500 was a beast (nothing sluggish about it), but just too uncivilized even for me.
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  #35  
Old June 6th, 2007, 11:33 PM
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Arthur Maravelis
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The 20+ is a target I've set to make the project challenging or worth the effort. Sure, I can plop in something and get 15 but I'm an engineer and gotta squeeze more out of this. I also want a GM, "off-the-shelf" setup.
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  #36  
Old June 7th, 2007, 07:55 PM
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good god....if driving a 5000lb rig with a 300tdi 5spd isn't exciting enough then you aren't holding your lips right.

Come and take the Slut for a ride...I wouldn't describe her as "sluggish"
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

"Dedicated to the resurrection of junk through engineering?"
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  #37  
Old June 8th, 2007, 09:05 AM
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David Marchand
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I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the commercial fishing boat exhaust...
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  #38  
Old June 8th, 2007, 08:37 PM
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Keep moving closer to Maine .....it'll only get louder. I miss having a boat and it's the best I could do.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

"Dedicated to the resurrection of junk through engineering?"
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