5-Speed to Auto? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 10th, 2013, 05:05 PM
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5-Speed to Auto?

Really starting to hate the clunkiness of my 5-speed... is there something wrong with mine or all they all as clunky as grandpa's John Deere tractor?

Is it possible to convert to auto?

('95 NAS D90)
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  #2  
Old May 10th, 2013, 05:16 PM
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What do you mean by clunky? What oil are you using?
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  #3  
Old May 10th, 2013, 05:18 PM
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Sure, you can make it an auto...you have to replace your transmission with a ZF transmission, install an auto gear shifter, and an auto center console from Ashcroft. Good luck!
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  #4  
Old May 10th, 2013, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
What do you mean by clunky? What oil are you using?
Every time I shift, you can just hear every sound coming through the transmission... just clunkier than I like. If I take my foot off of the gas and coast, and then reapply the fuel, it's clunky... when I shift, it's clunky. You almost have to ride the clutch and ease into the gears to smoothen it out... I wish there was another D90 like mine nearby so I could see the difference. The guys here at the dealership tell me it's normal.

Using whatever oil the techs put in... I'll find out. They're Land Rover Certified, so it has to be the right stuff...
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Old May 10th, 2013, 06:21 PM
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That may have nothing to do with the gearbox. It could be larger than normal slack in the drivetrain. The gearboxes themselves do not normally have much slack. Other than bearing failure, the only other normal problem is synchro wear which makes engaging gears difficult. I would have someone that know what they are looking at look and see if there is more slack than normal somewhere.

The oil Land Rover specifies it not really the best, but it does not sound like that is your problem.
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  #6  
Old May 10th, 2013, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
That may have nothing to do with the gearbox. It could be larger than normal slack in the drivetrain. The gearboxes themselves do not normally have much slack. Other than bearing failure, the only other normal problem is synchro wear which makes engaging gears difficult. I would have someone that know what they are looking at look and see if there is more slack than normal somewhere.

The oil Land Rover specifies it not really the best, but it does not sound like that is your problem.
Now that you mention it, sometimes there is resistance when shifting gears... like I have to force it into gear. Could that be the synchro? And could that cause the clunking?
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  #7  
Old May 10th, 2013, 06:30 PM
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U joints, worn diffs, worn t-case input/trans output.

Use Redline MTL. The dealer should have put in type F by the book, but almost no dealers have it so they use dextron mercon ATF which sucks and does not meet rover specs.
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  #8  
Old May 10th, 2013, 06:38 PM
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I wish one of you Defender experts lived closer!
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  #9  
Old May 10th, 2013, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
You could move.

-Jeff
We live on the internet.

The what fluid to put in the trans, wear in the driveline etc. have all been asked and answer on D-90.com (err defendersource.com)
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  #10  
Old May 10th, 2013, 07:04 PM
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See if the bolts attaching the drive shafts to the flanges are loose. When receiving mind, it clunked and I saw that the rear

------ Follow up post added May 10th, 2013 07:07 PM ------

See if the bolts attaching the drive shafts to the flanges are loose. When receiving my 90, it clunked and the rear shaft was loose. 9/16" thin wall socket will tighten them up in a few minutes. It is easy check.
And change to the Redline MTF. It works wonders.
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  #11  
Old May 10th, 2013, 07:29 PM
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I've been wanting to ask about this. Looking at Redlineoil.com MTL is a 70W80 gear oil. ATF is 'thinner'. While Redline says 'recommended for LT77S' isn't 70W80 thicker than ATF?

And why does Dextron suck when it is what the manual calls for?

Not trying to argue, just trying to understand.

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
U joints, worn diffs, worn t-case input/trans output.

Use Redline MTL. The dealer should have put in type F by the book, but almost no dealers have it so they use dextron mercon ATF which sucks and does not meet rover specs.
------ Follow up post added May 11th, 2013 09:32 AM ------

I just recently acquired my ex-MoD D-90 so I'm learning. What percentage of the nuts/bolts are non-metric? What size range of standard wrenches do I need to carry?

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
See if the bolts attaching the drive shafts to the flanges are loose. When receiving mind, it clunked and I saw that the rear

------ Follow up post added May 10th, 2013 07:07 PM ------

See if the bolts attaching the drive shafts to the flanges are loose. When receiving my 90, it clunked and the rear shaft was loose. 9/16" thin wall socket will tighten them up in a few minutes. It is easy check.
And change to the Redline MTF. It works wonders.
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  #12  
Old May 10th, 2013, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WD90 View Post
Now that you mention it, sometimes there is resistance when shifting gears... like I have to force it into gear. Could that be the synchro? And could that cause the clunking?
It could be the wrong fluid. It could be incorrect bias spring setup. It could be a clutch problem.
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  #13  
Old May 10th, 2013, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuamPilot View Post
I've been wanting to ask about this. Looking at Redlineoil.com MTL is a 70W80 gear oil. ATF is 'thinner'. While Redline says 'recommended for LT77S' isn't 70W80 thicker than ATF?

And why does Dextron suck when it is what the manual calls for?

Not trying to argue, just trying to understand.
When the LT77 was built there were no low viscosity transmission fluids on the market, so they specified ATF. ATF does not have very good friction characteristics for synchros. Part way through the life of the R380, Rover changed the spec to be Texaco MTF-94, which was designed as a low vis gearbox fluid. It is a better choice.

There are now quite a few fluids on the market as most gearboxes have change to low viscosity. Redline MTL has some of the best viscosity range properties of the available choices. Being heavier than the ATF is better for wear protection and the friction characteristics are better for the synchros.

http://www.red90.ca/rovers/MTF.htm
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  #14  
Old May 10th, 2013, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuamPilot View Post
I've been wanting to ask about this. Looking at Redlineoil.com MTL is a 70W80 gear oil. ATF is 'thinner'. While Redline says 'recommended for LT77S' isn't 70W80 thicker than ATF?

And why does Dextron suck when it is what the manual calls for?

Not trying to argue, just trying to understand.
I don't have a manual other than the PDF service manual floating around, but it indicates type G fluid, which is something unique to Europe. I guess the type F that ford used way back when is similar. The main difference between type f/g fluid and the newer dexron is friction modifiers. I guess the type F without fm allows the syncos to work a little bit better. The dexron reduces friction so automatics can shift smoother, but that doesn't help the manuals work as well.

Also gear oil and engine oil aren't on the same viscosity scale. 75w90 isn't any "thicker" than 10w40. Atf is thinner. But not too much. More like 5w20 or so on the engine oil charts.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 07:59 PM
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I'm using the auto box and lt230 from my Disco on my build. Will be doing custom tunnel cover rather than Ashcroft console. Cheaper.
If you swap, you will need a short extension between the lt230 and the auto box. This is sold by Ashcroft.
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  #16  
Old May 10th, 2013, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jafir View Post
Also gear oil and engine oil aren't on the same viscosity scale. 75w90 isn't any "thicker" than 10w40. Atf is thinner. But not too much. More like 5w20 or so on the engine oil charts.
Be careful with this. A 75W90 is too thick. You want a 70W80 or 75W80. At normal operating temperature, the 75W90 will be around twice as thick as the 70W80.
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  #17  
Old May 10th, 2013, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Be careful with this. A 75W90 is too thick. You want a 70W80 or 75W80. At normal operating temperature, the 75W90 will be around twice as thick as the 70W80.
I was just giving generalizations. A lot of people see the big numbers on gear oil and think its really thick compared to engine oil. It's not.
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  #18  
Old May 11th, 2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
I'm using the auto box and lt230 from my Disco on my build. Will be doing custom tunnel cover rather than Ashcroft console. Cheaper.
If you swap, you will need a short extension between the lt230 and the auto box. This is sold by Ashcroft.
I'd eventually like to do this... I searched but couldn't find any useful info on doing this conversion. We have a couple of Disco parts trucks in the back (2003 & 2004)... I wonder if I could use a tranny from either of those.
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  #19  
Old May 11th, 2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WD90 View Post

I'd eventually like to do this... I searched but couldn't find any useful info on doing this conversion. We have a couple of Disco parts trucks in the back (2003 & 2004)... I wonder if I could use a tranny from either of those.
Not easily. Those are electronically controlled. You'd need something like an ashcroft compushift.
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  #20  
Old May 11th, 2013, 11:05 AM
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[QUOTE="evilfij;437650"]U joints, worn diffs, worn t-case input/trans output.

Transfer case output flanges (front and rear), drive flanges (front and rear), diff flanges (front and rear) and new u joints solved the clunk on my 87 D-90....sounds expensive, but it was pretty cheap in reality. The frustrating part was installing it all!
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