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  #41  
Old July 11th, 2006, 11:24 AM
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Yeah, Mark we have worked with for years. We still don't have the "check engine" light working and a few other small glitches in the GEMS 4.6 conversion system, but once sorted it should be a really good set up. Mark is great, but very hard to reach. He makes the chips for RPI as well.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij
Mike,

Good info. It seems to make sense that the superchip would be the same if it only messed with timing. Another "trick" or hack depending on how you look at it, is to crank up the fuel pressure a tad when you swap the 4.6 in (some modify the stock regulator, others install adjustable). I would like to hear your view on this one as well.

I sent you an email I would appreciate a 4.2 chip if you get some time.

Ron
Got your email on the 4.2 chip, will do. Just give me a few days to get caught up.

In regards to the fuel pressure: This is great if you have other mods, like a tweaked ECU and different injectors. On an otherwise stock motor it won't gain you hardly anything. We change the regulators on the 5.2 and bigger motors, but it does little on a basically stock 4.6.
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  #42  
Old July 13th, 2006, 06:23 PM
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I understood from the Rover mechanic who installed a 4.6 short block into my 97 D-90 that there was no reason/need to replace chips. If that's not the case, if I'm missing out on potential performance, I'm definitely interested in whatever you come up with.

I'm currently using the PowerChip (http://www.powerchipgroup.com/index.asp) specified for the 4.0 engine. It's a single-chip swap.
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  #43  
Old July 14th, 2006, 09:02 AM
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You are missing out on performance (read the thread).

Contact Mark Adams in the UK. he can explain it much better than I can.
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  #44  
Old July 14th, 2006, 09:43 AM
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Chris Davis
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I have been running the 4.2 chip in my 4.6 for about 2 years and it works just fine--meaning I have no issues. That, of course, does not mean that I don't have "untapped" power that I just don't know about, but I can report it is a safe and stable swap.
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  #45  
Old July 14th, 2006, 09:47 AM
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Agreed, the 14CUX system is a much easier and cheper system to upgrade. The upgraded chips for those (the step above the 4.2 chip) do quite a bit and are well tested and well sorted. You'd see a good bit of gains over the 4.2 chip, but the 4.2 chip is a safe cheap alternative.

The thread really is about the need to update the GEMS EFI systems (1997 D90s) not the 14CUX in the 1993-1995 Defenders.


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  #46  
Old July 14th, 2006, 01:46 PM
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Arthur Maravelis
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Yes...back on topic.

How is it that once you switch to diesel you are not required to be OBDII compliant???

What about the cats? Surely, removing them isn't legal. Unless all of you are fitting diesel cats - yeah, right!
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  #47  
Old July 14th, 2006, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
Yes...back on topic.

How is it that once you switch to diesel you are not required to be OBDII compliant???

What about the cats? Surely, removing them isn't legal. Unless all of you are fitting diesel cats - yeah, right!
Ain't nothing "compliant" about installing a non EPA approved diesel into an OBDII Defender that according to the EPAs "engine switchign fact sheet" can't have its engine switched (not even for a 4.6).


We fit the cats on our diesel conversions, but that doesn't make them legal. As with all conversions we do (and all other Rover shops as well) a Tdi is for "off road use only". What the customer does when they leave is their business.

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  #48  
Old July 14th, 2006, 02:04 PM
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I should have been more clear:

I don't want to be "compliant" per se; I just want to pass smog inspection - with a Megasquirt equipped motor. MS will not be doing anything OBDII so they're no help. I can't believe people are not using MS in OBDII vehicles. If they are, obviously, they are passing smog.

When going for a smog test with a diesel swap, there's no OBDII connection. How do you pass?
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  #49  
Old July 14th, 2006, 02:33 PM
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Most of the MS systems that I have seen have been upgrades from carburetors or replacement of OBD-I and earlier systems.

You don't see many OBD-II conversions because of all the other associated electronics that have to be dealt with. Most newer OBD-II cars use a series of ECU's for much more than just engine control. They are also integrated into things such as ABS brakes, computer shifted transmissions and other things that Megasquirt cannot be adapted to.

Also, most OBD-II systems in performance cars are pretty well supported by the aftermarket chip companies, and offer a lot more on-the-fly tuning options than OBD-I did. This eliminates a lot of the reasons people want to install the MS ECU on pre-existing EFI cars. If you can do it with a simple plug-in tuner, why go through the trouble of re-wiring and re-programming the entire fuel and ignition management systems?

Then, don't forget that OBD-II emissions testing is usually far different than OBD-I testing. Here is how it's done in NY. In an OBD-II car, the emissions station usually just plugs in the diagnostic computer and if the car ECU isn't throwing a trouble code it's all good to pass. An OBD-I or earlier get the actual tailpipe sniffer, and if the dashboard light is off (or it didn't have one), and the sniffer comes back ok then it passes. But obviously the MS ECU won't interface with the emissions diagnostic machine.

But also, NY State doesn't test most light diesel vehicles. And I don't think there are many states that do.

-Hans
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  #50  
Old July 14th, 2006, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
They are also integrated into things such as ABS brakes, computer shifted transmissions and other things that Megasquirt cannot be adapted to.
I do not want MS to interface with the onboard OBDII or provide anything beyond spark and fuel. I do want it to report to the smog scanner the info it needs: status of tripped codes, rpm, O2 data, whatever they need for the smog test.


Quote:
If you can do it with a simple plug-in tuner, why go through the trouble of re-wiring and re-programming the entire fuel and ignition management systems?
Because I want to install a Chevy 350 EFI. I should be able to use the ECU from a Chevy truck and all associated sensorts, etc. but that's more involved than dropping the motor, MS, and only the handful of sensors it needs. If the ECU reports to the smog scanner that it's a Chevy vehicle then that's out.


Quote:
But also, NY State doesn't test most light diesel vehicles. And I don't think there are many states that do.
Same in Mass - diesels simply go through the safety check; at least 1970's diesels. But if you have a 97 with a diesel transplant does that supercede the need for the smog guy to plug into the OBDII? Obviously, this may be a touchy subject for those diesel converts so feel free to email me directly.
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  #51  
Old September 20th, 2006, 04:18 AM
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Any devlopments in the search for a two-chip upgrade for '97 D-90's running the 4.6 engine, one that includes OBDII diagnostics and functioning CEL?
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  #52  
Old September 20th, 2006, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm

Same in Mass - diesels simply go through the safety check; at least 1970's diesels. But if you have a 97 with a diesel transplant does that supercede the need for the smog guy to plug into the OBDII? Obviously, this may be a touchy subject for those diesel converts so feel free to email me directly.

Yes, it does supercede the OBDII. Since light diesels don't get checked, their is no need to hookup the OBD II. Their is a pass-through screen on the gov software where you input the diesel engine choice and it overrides all of the OBD II instructions to the smog guy for locating the OBD II plug. Last time I was inspected, I had the guy show me to make sure it was legit, etc.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Tarr
Any devlopments in the search for a two-chip upgrade for '97 D-90's running the 4.6 engine, one that includes OBDII diagnostics and functioning CEL?
Maybe Smitty will speak up. He just posted a '97 4.6 conversion to his site.
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  #53  
Old September 20th, 2006, 09:35 AM
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The test chips are on the way to me any day now.
The 97 4.6 we just did is running the older chip set that works fie, but no NAS diagnostics. Customer did not want to wait.
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  #54  
Old September 20th, 2006, 10:10 AM
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I just installed a set of chips from Mark Adams in my 97. It's not a 4.6, but it has head, trumpet, and exhaust work to get it to breath better at altitude. So far, I'm impressed with them. Certainly runs better over the stock set or Powerchip. Mark stated that once he gets some of the upgrades coded, ala Mike Smith, to make it 'perfect' he will send me an updated chip set. So thanks to you Mike for pushing for a better product. Mark
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  #55  
Old September 20th, 2006, 04:23 PM
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what was the quoted stock power of the 3.9, 4.0, 4.2 and 4.6? How much power are we talking about that is "untapped" anyway? Has anyone here Dynoed a rover block recently? Id love to see the real numbers!

Steve
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  #56  
Old September 20th, 2006, 04:38 PM
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might try talking to the buick guys. there is a yahoo group
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  #57  
Old September 20th, 2006, 04:56 PM
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Haven't done any dyno-pulls on a Rover V8 in years, but in the past with the 14CUX there was basically nothing in a chip alone. There is some in the GEMS chip, but little.
The chips work best when you are looking to take advantage of other mods you have done, like Oxcart13s situation.
Don't expect any real seat of the pants changes with just a chip.
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  #58  
Old September 20th, 2006, 06:07 PM
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Mike, I'm very eager to hear how your test chips perform. I've got a 4.6 in my '97 D-90, with the same single-chip (no new fuel map, just timing) Powerchip upgrade I ran on the stock 4.0. I'd love an option that maximizes the displacement increase, and retains OBDII diagnostics.
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  #59  
Old October 30th, 2006, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
The test chips are on the way to me any day now.
The 97 4.6 we just did is running the older chip set that works fie, but no NAS diagnostics. Customer did not want to wait.
Hey Mike, any news?
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  #60  
Old December 13th, 2006, 11:37 AM
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http://www.defendersource.com/faq/En...waps.html#4six about mid-way thru the page. Ben M's comments....
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