300Tdi Wing Top Air Intake (No Snorkel) - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 10th, 2017, 06:29 AM
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300Tdi Wing Top Air Intake (No Snorkel)

I've got an '84 Ninety and I've updated her to house a 300Tdi / R380 (woohoo!). As you know, the 300Tdi needs a different air intake configuration. The standard practice is to use a side vent, but I'm not keen to cut more holes in the body-work, mess with the paint, etc. Besides, this would lower the air intake point and limit my wading depth.

Current set-up: I've got RHD with the heater intake on the left wing, and the right wing vent is just a vent. At the moment I've got the 300 air intake hose running securely over the right wheel well and collecting air from the space behind right headlight. This seems to work fine, but presumably it would be better if I could get fresh, cold (non engine bay) air.

I was wondering there is any reason I cannot hook the air intake up to the right wing top vent. There seem to be plenty of raised air intake kits for wing-top intake (vs side intake). I've got two concerns here and am hoping for help/guidance:

(1) Do I need the right wing vent for engine heat ventilation / would blocking it impact performance? I see plenty of wing top raise air intake kits so my guess is there would not be a problem, but somebody with hands on experience might know otherwise.

(2) Water intake. Obviously I don't want to suck in water. I've looked at the parts diagrams and it seems that on a typical side intake there is really nothing stopping water from entering the primary intake pipe. Sure, it's unlikely to collect much water being on the side, but in heavy rain water would still enter this first section of pipe. That suggests to me that there must be a drain somewhere before the air hits the engine.



The second part of the air intake diagram shows a downward V shaped section of pipe (#10) labeled dump valve. What does this normally connect to? Can someone kindly explain to me how the water drains out of the air intake line?



I could of course add a raised air intake but it's not really necessary for the type of offroading/wading I expect. If I can avoid the snorkel but fabricate an wing top intake box similar to what is used for the heater intake on the left side, that would help me maintain a mostly factory look and avoid cutting up the wing for a side vent.

Thanks for your help!
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  #2  
Old August 10th, 2017, 06:35 AM
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The dump valve is simply a short piece of hose molded so one end is mashed together, and the presence of water in it allows it to open a tad and allow drainage.

What you describe should work. It is your engine, and putting water in it will make it your junk engine. That said, if you feel comfortable with your described set-up, and believe water will not enter the intake, go for it.

Do not worry about using that vent. It does not need to be there for engine cooling.
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Old August 10th, 2017, 06:52 AM
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If you need it, I have a brand new in bag intake hose (#5 in diagram above) available. I ordered it from LRDirect but it won't fit in the tiny engine bay of the 2A. Yours for what I paid.
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Old August 10th, 2017, 10:51 PM
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I like the idea you are doing. But I would take the extra effort to put a fine screen over the opening to minimize the amount of debris that will be falling into your intake hose. (the same type of fiberglass screen that is installed on house hold windows). You might also want to consider installing an air intake scoop that will also help keep stuff from falling into the intake hose. There are several plastic ones on the market. I fabricate two different styles out of aluminum sheet metal that are pretty effective.

here is the url to the style I use on my truck
Air Scoops from American Dirt Roads

here is the url to a different style that effectively keeps out snow and rain. I have sold a number of them to defender owners in Australia - you would think that it is a fairly arid country - but when it rains there - it really pours.... I originally designed it for a forum member from the east coast to keep snow and ice from collecting in the fresh air intake bowl

Winter Vent Covers from American Dirt Roads


Good luck
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Old August 11th, 2017, 04:46 AM
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The snorkel itself is pretty darn cheap http://www.sp-4x4.com/td5_defender_m.../ba-2123am.htm
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Old August 11th, 2017, 06:15 AM
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Why not put a snow cowl on the wing top and forget about debris and rain water? RH STEEL METAL SNOW COWL (FOR LHD)
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Old August 11th, 2017, 07:24 AM
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Thanks to everyone for the input thus far.

KGH - Absolutely. The risks are mine and mine alone which is why I'm trying to be careful AND seek the input of those with experience. I figure if I can work out 2 or more ways to dump/drain/stop water that's ideal.

Bill - I'm planning on doing some work this weekend so hopefully I'll have a better sense of where I stand by next week. I'll let you know about the intake hose.

Len - Totally agree on the need for additional filtering. With the current hose setup I'm going to add a K&N cone filter to the end just to keep our debris but also any curious mouse etc that might like to nest in the pipe while I'm parked! Something like this...



The scoops you suggested might block marginally more debris and snow than my existing vent covers (pic) but not enough that I don't still need to think about water drainage after the vent opening.



Chris/Rocky - The cost of the snorkel isn't a deal breaker, though I would want to find or modify one to come out of the wing top vs the side since I don't have a side vent at the moment.

Bo - Yup. The snow cowl is definitely in the running. Frankly, I just dont like the look. I won't risk my engine over vanity/image but that's why I've posted here and am trying to find a safe solution while preserving the stock-ish looking wing top vents.

Ultimately, if I can't find a fool-proof debris filter / water dump/drain solution using the wing top vent, then I will probably opt for the snorkel. The snorkel offers additional off-road benefits vs the cowl and is only a couple bucks more.
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Old August 11th, 2017, 10:50 AM
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I run a K&N filter in the factory air filter canister.... but use a raised air intake. I use two different faces for the factory air filter canister. For city use I just use the standard "horn" face that clamps to the canister. When I go wheeling I remove the "horn" face and attach a modified face that has my air hose clamped to it. ( I cut off the "horn") . The other end of the air hose attaches to the raised air intake at the left wing. When I am not using the raise air intake I keep it under the hood and held in place with a simple piece of malleable wire (like wire used to hold metal rebar together). - I can take a couple pics of the set up and post it in this string so you want to see my take on fresh, clean (cool air ) getting to the engine.
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Old August 11th, 2017, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenB View Post
I run a K&N filter in the factory air filter canister.... but use a raised air intake. I use two different faces for the factory air filter canister. For city use I just use the standard "horn" face that clamps to the canister. When I go wheeling I remove the "horn" face and attach a modified face that has my air hose clamped to it. ( I cut off the "horn") . The other end of the air hose attaches to the raised air intake at the left wing. When I am not using the raise air intake I keep it under the hood and held in place with a simple piece of malleable wire (like wire used to hold metal rebar together). - I can take a couple pics of the set up and post it in this string so you want to see my take on fresh, clean (cool air ) getting to the engine.
I'd definitely appreciate the chance to see some pics of what you are describing. I think I have a decent sense of it but pics are always helpful. Does your raised air intake enter from the side or top of the wing? Do you have a water dump somewhere in the intake line under the bonnet (as in the part diagram ESR3162)? Thanks for the input.
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Old August 11th, 2017, 12:20 PM
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Side of the wing intake has always made me think, "this is the worse place to put an intake with all the dust and water spray coming off the front wheel"

In the parts list I used parts, 7 & 10 & then added some ABS 90 fitting to take it to the top fender intake position. Used some metal strapping to the fender to hold it in place.
I also used one of those plastic intake horns to replace a similar Alum. unit I made in as seen in post #4 above.

Mine has been in place for at least 10 years with on issue about water being drawn into the intake.
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Old August 11th, 2017, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_Bear View Post
I'd definitely appreciate the chance to see some pics of what you are describing. I think I have a decent sense of it but pics are always helpful. Does your raised air intake enter from the side or top of the wing? Do you have a water dump somewhere in the intake line under the bonnet (as in the part diagram ESR3162)? Thanks for the input.

A while back I was experimenting with a marine "bilge blower" to help pull air from the raised air intake and push it through to the air box. the following thread show then end product. I don't use the blower anymore on the tube anymore. But the pics will show the air canister horn after modification.

In line blower for mantec raised air intake system
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Old August 17th, 2017, 10:58 AM
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Anybody ever seen these intake covers from Hydroshield?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001CO2JMA/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_aBLKzbEK54XSM


I'd want to run a test with and without the cover to ensure it's allowing good air flow.
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Old August 17th, 2017, 02:07 PM
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The dump valve is much larger than the duckbill valve (#3) in the filter. There is a circular disc of rubber that is held closed by the suction and will open and allow water or debris to drop if flooded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_Bear View Post
The second part of the air intake diagram shows a downward V shaped section of pipe (#10) labeled dump valve. What does this normally connect to? Can someone kindly explain to me how the water drains out of the air intake line?



I could of course add a raised air intake but it's not really necessary for the type of offroading/wading I expect. If I can avoid the snorkel but fabricate an wing top intake box similar to what is used for the heater intake on the left side, that would help me maintain a mostly factory look and avoid cutting up the wing for a side vent.

Thanks for your help!
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Old August 17th, 2017, 03:02 PM
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In my expereince the stock 300 setup works well.

Cone filters on diesels....where to start.
There was a flow test posted on AULRO forum showing how a K&N cone flowed compared to stock lr cannister.
Probably best to read that thread yourself and reach your own conclusions.
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