300tdi white smoke - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old June 21st, 2013, 01:50 PM
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steve
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300tdi white smoke

Well... white smoke is back, never really left except on hot days in summer. There is along history of this through multiple threads but here is the summary:
White smoke on cold start, not much at idle but when reved especially when letting off there is a lot of white smoke and a slight stumble. Much worse at altitude or in winter. Also appears when going down hill on over run if the motor is a little cold.
Virtually disappears when the motor is warm

I have checked/replaced the normal: injectors, fuel/air filter, fuel return lines, turbo hoses, advanced timing slightly, changed timing belt/pulleys.

There is no evidence of head gasket problems and no obvious excessive pressure in crankcase.

I'm down to a few culprits but would like to spend my time wisely...thoughts?:

Timing- Although I've replaced the belt/pulleys, check and rechecked and advanced... I'm still worried. Is it possible to be off a tooth and have it all line up with in reason? What about the key on the crank? Is it worth setting using the special dial indicator?

Valve stem seals/guides- They are probably leaking s little... but the problem smoke is quite white with a little blue/grey. I do get a little blue smoke after sitting at idle for a while... but not enough to care.

Head problem- I have read a few threads suggesting head issues (crack or bent push rod) can cause these symptoms. thoughts?

Turbo- There is a little play in the shaft, no more than my 200tdi though. Definitely oil in hoses but there always has been. Waste gate seems to function properly. Would a turbo going give symptoms like this? I have no clue on turbos age...but I bet it is old.

Rings- Good god I hope not. Using a little oil but not excessive at all no evidence of blowby from oil cap.

IP- Any chance the IP is knackered? I have messed with the pre boost fuel but never the other adjustments. No leaks or anything obvious. lines to intake are intact.

I think my next step is a compression test and I am thinking of pulling the cover and looking at the timing belt again to be sure. I really want this problem fixed this summer but I feel like I'm going around in circles.

Any insight or advise is appreciated!
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  #2  
Old June 21st, 2013, 02:00 PM
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White smoke is unburned fuel or oil. It needs to get into the cylinder too late to combust, after the combustion or from lack of combustion.

Have you checked compression?
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  #3  
Old June 21st, 2013, 02:02 PM
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Compression is next on my list, I may do it today If I get out of work early. Even is obviously important but what numbers should I expect?
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  #4  
Old June 21st, 2013, 02:04 PM
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There are specs in the manual, but it depends a bit on the method you use.
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  #5  
Old June 21st, 2013, 02:22 PM
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Also, check your voltage for the glow system. You shouldnt really have it at cold start. How is the temp at the gauge? In the winter and fall, albeit this was on a BJ60, I used to pull the blind down on the radiator to get some heat in the motor.
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  #6  
Old June 21st, 2013, 02:35 PM
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Shouldn't need the glows above 20degF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viggen View Post
Also, check your voltage for the glow system. You shouldnt really have it at cold start. How is the temp at the gauge? In the winter and fall, albeit this was on a BJ60, I used to pull the blind down on the radiator to get some heat in the motor.
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  #7  
Old June 21st, 2013, 02:52 PM
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White smoke = water

Check the fuel for water.
Check for coolant leaking into the cylinders.
Check coolant overflow bottle for compression bubbles.

Doesn't take much water to create a lot of white smoke.
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  #8  
Old June 21st, 2013, 03:42 PM
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I dont think glow is an issue. Shouldn't need them in CA... ever

Rob- Will do, but the smoke is not pure white, more white/grey/ with a little blue.
There is nothing obvious in the expansion tank. clean and clear and there is no coolant loss.
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  #9  
Old June 21st, 2013, 04:04 PM
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"Much worse at altitude or in winter"

At higher altitude, my guess is that you are on the boost more often. Assuming you are not losing oil (you would be losing oil pretty rapidly given the amount of smoke you are describing) then I would venture a guess that this has less to do with cylinder pressure and more to do with the IP seeing more boost pressure more often.

Here's a question: Ignoring the temperature related issues, Is the problem worse when you are boosting?

If not, I think a simple diesel engine compression test is in order. This would help you rule out the rings, which when worn, could cause the issues you describe due to issues with thermal expansion (or lack thereof).
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  #10  
Old June 21st, 2013, 05:51 PM
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http://www.costeffective.com.au/news_show.php?StoryId=9
Any (read "small") amount of water will bring you to having white smoke.
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  #11  
Old June 21st, 2013, 06:05 PM
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Ran a compression test, but my nozzles valve is busted. Peak at each turn of motor is 190 across all 4.
Ill borrow a new nozzle and run it again though.

BUT the glow plug on #3 was covered in oil. So was nozzle after test.

Valve stem seal?
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  #12  
Old June 21st, 2013, 06:13 PM
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Btw- it was cold and had been sitting for a week.
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  #13  
Old June 21st, 2013, 09:27 PM
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I had similar issues with my 300 tdi and it was a combination of one bad injector (#2) and valve stem seals. ( 170000kms on the motor ) as far as I could tell they had never been done. Also all my glow plugs were dead and I never had any issues starting

Stem seals can be done in situ but I chose to pull the head to check the guides/ lap the valves/ check for cracks etc...
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  #14  
Old June 22nd, 2013, 07:02 AM
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You have a water jacket at the back of the motor that fails in the head gasket. You do not see water leaking on the outside of the motor but will loose a little coolant in the over flow bottle. I had one that didn't pressurize the coolant but blew white smoke until the motor was warm. Have you tried to smell the exhaust to see it it has a smell of coolant or diesel?
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  #15  
Old June 24th, 2013, 11:56 AM
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No smell that I can tell.


Anyone replace a stem seal in situ? Advise?
I think it is worth a shot on #3
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  #16  
Old June 24th, 2013, 12:05 PM
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Am I the only one who thinks 190 is a little (a lot) low for a diesel? Shouldn't it be 24bar?

http://www.turner-engineering.co.uk/

My immediate instinct is to say that the rings need replacement. Repeating with a little heavyweight oil in the cylinders might be worth doing.
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  #17  
Old June 24th, 2013, 01:54 PM
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Check the injectors...

OK, so it's not pure white, so if it were mine, the next step would be to pull the injectors and test them or have them tested. They will need both pop testing and spray pattern testing. If you don't have a pop tester, any good diesel shop can test the injectors. They will fit in a small flat rate box if you want to send them to Elton Wright at Blue Ridge Diesel, Roanoke, VA. They are familiar with the 300TDI injectors, unlike people who will tell you "this is a European model".
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  #18  
Old June 24th, 2013, 02:07 PM
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I think you are right 190 is low. but remember my compression tester is not working properly. The valve on the glow plug insert does not function so pressure is not building at each turn. This is essentially the max pressure at a single rotation... still looking for a functioning glow plug insert to get more accurate numbers.

At least they are reasonably even

------ Follow up post added June 24th, 2013 02:08 PM ------

Injectors are ~5000miles new.
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  #19  
Old June 24th, 2013, 04:30 PM
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The dirty glow plug is most likely just a dead plug. Run a jumper cable across each and see if they work.
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  #20  
Old June 27th, 2013, 04:34 PM
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I checked the compression using a working tester.
All 4 are 400ish. So that's good.

Thinking of trying to replace that stem seal then if that doesn't do it take the turbo out to have it serviced.
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