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  #41  
Old December 31st, 2013, 12:44 PM
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Steve, did you get the EGT hooked up?
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  #42  
Old March 28th, 2017, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Skimmed through this thread and thought a little more about your issues.
Pull the fuel feed going to the IP out of the filter and see how much fuel comes out when you crank it over. I have a cache of the old metal coffee cans to drop the fuel line into so the output is easily observed without spilling anything.

Your problem could be fuel delivery.
Just recently had a fuel delivery issue with the Mercedes powered 110 and had to replace the tank and 12V pump that was added to eliminate fuel delivery issues.

I always route the fuel from the tank to a sedimenter then to a 12V pump, then to the lift pump, then to the fuel filter and on to the IP. The injector spill over is always joined with the IP return line and goes back to the tank. for some ridiculously idiotic reason many of the 2.25 and 2.5 N/A diesels and other makes join the injector spill over and IP return line and loop it back into the main filter which recirculates any trapped air. This also makes it near impossible to track down a suction line air leak.

Regardless of what Dennis says, most gasoline filters are not diesel compatible, so if you have any in your fuel system, they could be a source of fuel starvation and should be removed.

Just a few thoughts as air in the fuel, water, or fuel starvation can also cause the whitish smoke.

Do you have a sedimenter and if so have you drained it to make sure it isn't filled with water?

Hope this helps...
I have a Range Rover Classic with 300TDI. I noticed the old fuel injection fuel filter near the tank is still in place and probably way over due for a change. I was trying to decide if I should leave/change the old fuel injection filter or delete it. Seems I should delete it. My question is why have a 12V pump pushing fuel to the lift pump? Why not just delete the lift pump? Or is the 12V pump on a Aux switch in case the lift pump fails?

I like the sedimenter idea, do you have a brand you prefer? May be I can splice one in where the old fuel filter is now.

Thanks pb
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  #43  
Old March 28th, 2017, 10:32 PM
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An answer to a past quote...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC_MULE View Post
I noticed the old fuel injection fuel filter near the tank is still in place and probably way over due for a change. I was trying to decide if I should leave/change the old fuel injection filter or delete it. Seems I should delete it. My question is why have a 12V pump pushing fuel to the lift pump? Why not just delete the lift pump? Or is the 12V pump on a Aux switch in case the lift pump fails?

I like the sedimenter idea, do you have a brand you prefer? May be I can splice one in where the old fuel filter is now.

Thanks pb
You may be confusing a sedimenter near the tank as "a old fuel injection fuel filter near the tank".

"why have a 12V pump pushing fuel to the lift pump"
The lift pump must have a uninterrupted supply of fuel to deliver a sufficient amount of fuel to the injection pump.
Any air leak in the line (especially if it is the fragile plastic type) will suck in air and interrupt fuel flow to the lift pump leaving the engine fuel starved.
A 12V fuel pump back near the tank insures a steady flow and exposes air leaks as fuel leaks because the line becomes pressurized.
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  #44  
Old September 18th, 2017, 12:04 PM
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Trying to bring back an older thread vs rehashing a lot more of the same. I've read through the prior posts + other threads and it seems like I've most likely got a head gasket leak.

Primary symptom: white smoke at startup particularly after sitting for 12+hrs and on colder mornings. The while smoke dissipates after driving for a few minutes and does not seem to be present during normal driving. I am not confusing the white smoke with a puff of black smoke @ startup OR some black smoke if I open the throttle on a hill.

I checked the easy stuff and see no milky oil under engine cap or dip stick. Also no signs of bubbles in the coolant. That said, my coolant was low (I checked it 2-3 weeks ago and it was at normal levels). It is possible that I have a coolant leak unrelated to the white smoke, but I haven't found any puddles or crystallized coolant.

I've uploaded a video of my tailpipe. This was shot in the afternoon around 77 degrees after sitting for about 8hrs. There's not nearly as much as morning/cold starts but this was the best chance I've had to get someone to help me film it.

Here's a direct video link as well

It sounds like a pressure test is the next step, unless anybody has any other suggestions for at-home diagnostics? Assuming I should go ahead with the compression test. Can anyone offer my any guidance on what kind of $ pain I'm in for? For now I'm assuming/hoping that there's no damage to the cylinders or block.
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  #45  
Old September 18th, 2017, 12:09 PM
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White smoke is normal on cold startup and is normally un-burned diesel due to one or more cylinders not combusting until they warm up a bit.

Smell the smoke in the exhaust. If it smells like diesel, then there is nothing to worry about. If it smells like coolant, then you may have a head gasket leak.
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  #46  
Old September 18th, 2017, 12:47 PM
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unburnt fuel, you can hear it miss when you blip the throttle. How old are your injector tips ?
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  #47  
Old September 18th, 2017, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
White smoke is normal on cold startup and is normally un-burned diesel due to one or more cylinders not combusting until they warm up a bit.

Smell the smoke in the exhaust. If it smells like diesel, then there is nothing to worry about. If it smells like coolant, then you may have a head gasket leak.
Fair enough. I'll get someone else to start it up and stand behind for a good wiff of the exhaust.

Still, the loss of coolant with no visible leaks has me wondering. I've been reading up on the steps to complete a compression test. Seems simple enough with the right compression testing kit. Can anybody recommend one for sale that is believed to be compatible with 300Tdi glow plugs?

Example 1 from Amazon: https://goo.gl/fT2Sbc
Example 2 from Amazon: https://goo.gl/RAcJPb

I figure doing a compression test won't hurt and it's a bit more definitive than my exhaust sniff test.

------ Follow up post added September 18th, 2017 12:52 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
unburnt fuel, you can hear it miss when you blip the throttle. How old are your injector tips ?
Brand new injectors (3 weeks old).

Any other reason why it might be missing assuming the injectors are new/good?
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  #48  
Old September 18th, 2017, 01:34 PM
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White smoke (contingent on its odor as mentioned above) may signify insufficient temperature. White smoke is an indication of unburned diesel fuel. Normally, it would happen at startup in cold weather with lower compression engines and retarded timing. You get an incomplete combustion during startup and it causes raw diesel fuel to come out of the exhaust. Typically it will clear up very quickly. If you have an higher mileage engine, low compression, bad timing or low injection pressure, you will be more susceptible to white smoke.
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  #49  
Old September 18th, 2017, 03:08 PM
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Bear, keep an eye on the coolant but I experienced the same thing for a period of time right after the HG was redone and I replaced my injector tips. No idea if any of that was related. I too had very mild white smoke but it didn't smell like coolant to me.

My advice would be drive it as much as you possibly can. Take it everywhere and just keep and eye on the temps and check the coolant like a good farmer.
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  #50  
Old September 20th, 2017, 08:29 AM
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Stood by the exhaust and the smoke smells like normal exhaust (best I can tell, but to be fair I don't really know what burning antifreeze smells like...I assume 'sweet'er than diesel). Coolant level doesn't seem to have changed since I topped it up Saturday. I'm still going to do a compression test & hydrocarbon test (of the coolant), but hopefully the white smoke is indeed unburnt diesel.

Uncle Douglas noted that he heard the engine miss when I tapped the throttle. Since I just replaced the injectors are there other things I can check/adjust to improve this?
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  #51  
Old September 20th, 2017, 08:54 AM
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I would imagine that either your power or mileage is suffering noticeably?

No?

I would think that there are other issues besides white smoke if your engine sounds like that while revving. That's not a normal tdi revving noise

That said, another important thing in the video that I saw is that it's not just white smoke. You have a pretty sizeable puff of dark black on startup that gets cleared by white.

How much in the way of MPG are you getting? It could just be that your timing is way off and you're not igniting fuel - just dumping it out the engine. It might stop once the engine gets hot because of the improved auto-ignition of the fuel at higher engine temperatures. Sometimes people do some pretty gnarly fuel pump "adjusting" to get the power up to compensate for this kind of thing and it just leads to a smokey existence.
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  #52  
Old September 20th, 2017, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
I would imagine that either your power or mileage is suffering noticeably?

No?

I would think that there are other issues besides white smoke if your engine sounds like that while revving. That's not a normal tdi revving noise

That said, another important thing in the video that I saw is that it's not just white smoke. You have a pretty sizeable puff of dark black on startup that gets cleared by white.

How much in the way of MPG are you getting? It could just be that your timing is way off and you're not igniting fuel - just dumping it out the engine. It might stop once the engine gets hot because of the improved auto-ignition of the fuel at higher engine temperatures. Sometimes people do some pretty gnarly fuel pump "adjusting" to get the power up to compensate for this kind of thing and it just leads to a smokey existence.
I converted / upgraded from a 12J engine to the 300 so I don't have a history with the 300 to use for comparison. I've gone through 4 tanks of fuel with the 300 and have gotten 22-24 MPGs per tank. Power in most gears seems ok, but 5th seems to be weak even very slight hills.

Here's another video I recorded Sunday. It was recorded as I try to diagnose which pully bearing is causing the squeak but maybe someone with more 200/300 experience can hear something in the idling engine. Please excuse the crummy camera work - this wasn't filmed with the intention of sharing.
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  #53  
Old September 20th, 2017, 09:27 AM
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Resetting the IP to factory setting with dial gauge would be a good way to clean the slate now that you have new injectors.
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  #54  
Old September 22nd, 2017, 09:33 AM
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Got stuck at work late and missed the 3rd Thurs happy hour, but did make it home in time to conduct a hydrocarbon test on the coolant vapor. No signs of hydrocarbons in the coolant which bodes well for my head gasket. Along with the new injectors it suggests to me that I probably have a timing or injector pump issue. Prior owner may have done something funky so I'll do some research/reading.

I recently picked up but have not yet installed my EGT sender/gauge. I think doing that first will give me some extra data. I've heard different max safe EG temps depending in part on probe location. I'm going to install in the EGR blanking plate. What's the max temp I should target 1200?
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  #55  
Old September 22nd, 2017, 09:41 AM
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White smoke is retarded timing.

Per the turbo mfr Garret, sustained 1350 "may result" in heat damage.
The truck should be tuned so that it can get there and then you should adjust your driving style to not let it stay there for long. A simple downshift immediately drops temp hundreds of degrees.

FWIW retarded timing makes the engine run considerably hotter than correct timing.
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  #56  
Old September 22nd, 2017, 10:16 AM
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DCBear- I'll bet you a beer your timing is retarded and possibly one tooth off. Need to measure lift at the IP to be sure.
I spent years chasing white smoke and that was it.

Good luck!
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  #57  
Old September 22nd, 2017, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
White smoke is retarded timing.

Per the turbo mfr Garret, sustained 1350 "may result" in heat damage.
The truck should be tuned so that it can get there and then you should adjust your driving style to not let it stay there for long. A simple downshift immediately drops temp hundreds of degrees.

FWIW retarded timing makes the engine run considerably hotter than correct timing.
Thanks Doug - your experienced diagnostic help is very much appreciated as always.

Also good to know re: 1350. Obviously I'll look to keep it well below that and might set a warning at 1250 or so to keep myself on point

Quote:
Originally Posted by D90user View Post
DCBear- I'll bet you a beer your timing is retarded and possibly one tooth off. Need to measure lift at the IP to be sure.
I spent years chasing white smoke and that was it.

Good luck!
I still need to research steps for checking lift @ IP but I think I've got a good handle on checking/correcting timing of the IP. I noticed in the videos and LR manual that they reference special tools LRT-12044 and LRT-12045. Aside from costing a lot more than a screwdriver or the back end of a drill bit, is there anything unique about these tools? Can anyone confirm that I can get by doing the check/adjustment without the timing keys?
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  #58  
Old September 22nd, 2017, 04:11 PM
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Locking on the IP is easy with a drill bit.
The flywheel lock is a bit more tricky and worth buying or making something to fit exactly.

BUT, you can have the engine locked with pins @ TDC and and not be at 1.56mm lift at the IP. This is because of the adjustment possible on the IP gear. This was the case on my 300.
I think that I or someone before me set it 1 tooth off during a belt change. Pins always lined up and no matter how much i advanced the timing the belt positioning would not allow 1.56mm

It generally ran OK, nt great but got white/blue smoke at startup and billows sometimes when really cold on overrun.

I finally measured lift at the IP and wasn't able to get to proper lift with out moving belt 1 tooth over. It completely cured the issue 100%. Runs much stronger now because it was retarded.

I'm not saying that is your issue, could be injectors, air in lines, compression, etc.... but its worth checking before buying things!
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  #59  
Old September 22nd, 2017, 05:33 PM
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For what it's worth I found that an air nipple threaded right into the wade plug at the bottom of the transmission and a 1/4? Drill bit slid right through it and locked the flywheel. Maybe it will work for you too.
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  #60  
Old September 23rd, 2017, 04:42 PM
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Found a timing tool kit on EBay for $10 delivered. At that price there's no reason not to have the right tools.
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