300tdi vs. td5 - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 10th, 2011, 12:46 PM
toga2
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marcus farone
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300tdi vs. td5

looking for some feedback on the pros and cons of these two engines. I'm looking to get my first defender and I want it to be a diesel. Cruising at 70-75 mph is a must and will have to get ac to keep the dog cool. Thanks for the info, books don't always tell you the practical real world facts.
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  #2  
Old February 10th, 2011, 12:52 PM
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TD5 computer controlled. 300 not necessarily.
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  #3  
Old February 10th, 2011, 01:00 PM
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thomas
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I am sure you have read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_engines

The 300TDI uses a timing belt and the TD5 uses a timing chain. The belt requires changing every 6 years http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=22319

The TD5 has an awesome traction control system, and it can be tuned like most modern engines. Most TD5's have an immobilizer that works very well.

------ Follow up post added February 10th, 2011 01:05 PM ------

As far as I know Doug on the board has driven and owned both the 300 and the TD5
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  #4  
Old February 10th, 2011, 01:07 PM
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Jamie Austin
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Td5 only had TC on vehicles with it fitted... most don't (it works in conjuntion with ABS) but has a fairly good anti-stall feature.

Tdi's are good, basic, easy to work on. but smoke if tuned (i.e. fuelling turned up)

Td5's are still clean even when kicking out near 200bhp

Td5's can adapt themselves for altitude and fuel temperature.

Td5's have an ECU, which can be moved (with an extension loom) up to the roof level to keep it away from water, if you tend to do lots of wading. mine is in the factory position and i've not drowned it yet. the ECU is no more complicated than the V8 ECU.

There are more sensors on the engine than the V8, but only one of them (the CPS...crank position sensor) will actually STOP the engine from running... the rest will set the engine to a default setting, enabling you to get home.

carry a spare CPS (about 50 UKP) and a 10mm socket... takes about 5 minutes to change it.

Fuel pump can let you down, no worse than a V8 one i suppose. it's an in-tank one, so needs the tank dropping or a hatch cutting in the rear tub.

I'd go for a Td5 every time now.
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  #5  
Old February 10th, 2011, 01:10 PM
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300tdi is easier to find Stateside.
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  #6  
Old February 10th, 2011, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel_jim View Post
Td5 only had TC on vehicles with it fitted... most don't (it works in conjuntion with ABS) but has a fairly good anti-stall feature.

Tdi's are good, basic, easy to work on. but smoke if tuned (i.e. fuelling turned up)

Td5's are still clean even when kicking out near 200bhp

Td5's can adapt themselves for altitude and fuel temperature.

Td5's have an ECU, which can be moved (with an extension loom) up to the roof level to keep it away from water, if you tend to do lots of wading. mine is in the factory position and i've not drowned it yet. the ECU is no more complicated than the V8 ECU.

There are more sensors on the engine than the V8, but only one of them (the CPS...crank position sensor) will actually STOP the engine from running... the rest will set the engine to a default setting, enabling you to get home.

carry a spare CPS (about 50 UKP) and a 10mm socket... takes about 5 minutes to change it.

Fuel pump can let you down, no worse than a V8 one i suppose. it's an in-tank one, so needs the tank dropping or a hatch cutting in the rear tub.

I'd go for a Td5 every time now.
Love the anti-stalll feature... I also can't believe how well the traction control system works with the anti-stall.

I need to hear more about this CPS, I also read somewhere that if the turbo starts to vibrat too much it will shut the engine down as well (not sure if this is a wivestale or not)..
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  #7  
Old February 10th, 2011, 01:39 PM
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Could also get a puma
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Are there shocks that I can addjust up and down like my friends LX460? That would be very cool!
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  #8  
Old February 10th, 2011, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjfslaughter View Post
Love the anti-stalll feature... I also can't believe how well the traction control system works with the anti-stall.

I need to hear more about this CPS, I also read somewhere that if the turbo starts to vibrat too much it will shut the engine down as well (not sure if this is a wivestale or not)..

I think the GEMS V8's had a CPS. i suspect most modern cars do. it bolts onto the bellhousing and reads off of marks in the outer edge of the flywheel. just held in place with a 10mm bolt and a 3 pin plug.

No sensors on the turbo, although there is a MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure) which reads the turbo "boost", which is what you may be thinking of... if the boost is too high it cuts back, either just like a rev limiter, or into limp home mode... re-start the engine to reset it.

------ Follow up post added February 10th, 2011 06:47 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
Could also get a puma


Now, the Puma anti-stall IS something to be interested in:


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  #9  
Old February 10th, 2011, 02:14 PM
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Gardner Congdon
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300Tdi vs TD5

Hey Marcus-
I drove a 300Tdi from South Glens Falls to Seattle last April and have been driving it ever since. I am still amazed at the fuel economy I get. Didn't have to downshift going uphill anywhere along the way (highway- several passes as you can imagine). My other truck is a '90 V6 Pathfider with headers and the 300 does much better than that on the highway. That being said, there are some ridiculously steep hills here in town and if starting from a dead stop the 300 lacks a little compared to the TD5 I test drove last year- maybe they are geared differently too, I don't know.

Just curious- are you looking for something to drop into a rig you already have, or are you going to have something built in the UK and import?

Hope you are enjoying all the snow.

-Gardner
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  #10  
Old February 10th, 2011, 02:45 PM
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Julian Kotting
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I wasn't impressed by the fuel economy on the TD5, the tdci is better as is the 300tdi on long runs. I drove a tdci truck from NY to LA last year at an average speed of about 80mph , we got just over 25mpg US.
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  #11  
Old February 10th, 2011, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardner View Post
Hey Marcus-
I drove a 300Tdi from South Glens Falls to Seattle last April and have been driving it ever since. I am still amazed at the fuel economy I get. Didn't have to downshift going uphill anywhere along the way (highway- several passes as you can imagine). My other truck is a '90 V6 Pathfider with headers and the 300 does much better than that on the highway. That being said, there are some ridiculously steep hills here in town and if starting from a dead stop the 300 lacks a little compared to the TD5 I test drove last year- maybe they are geared differently too, I don't know.

Just curious- are you looking for something to drop into a rig you already have, or are you going to have something built in the UK and import?

Hope you are enjoying all the snow.

-Gardner
what tranny/tcase/gears do you have? I find myself having to downshift on moderate hills with my 2.8. does 90 vs 110 make that much of a difference?
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  #12  
Old February 10th, 2011, 02:53 PM
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I was told in my search to find a replacement engine for my 2,25 gas that TD5 was cost prohibitive to repair, a well known Land Rover builder told he threw them away and his opinion the best option was a 300 TDI. Air conditioning was around 1500 UK pounds extra with a 300 TDI no longer available for a 200 TDI
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  #13  
Old February 10th, 2011, 04:04 PM
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marcus farone
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Thanks for the responses. I don't currently own a defender, just trying to build my knowledge so when i find the right one i'll know it.
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  #14  
Old February 10th, 2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
Could also get a puma

How'd I know this would be your only contribution to this.
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  #15  
Old February 11th, 2011, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander View Post
what tranny/tcase/gears do you have? I find myself having to downshift on moderate hills with my 2.8. Does 90 vs 110 make that much of a difference?
r380 1.410
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  #16  
Old February 12th, 2011, 03:46 PM
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Jamie Austin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjva View Post
that TD5 was cost prohibitive to repair, a well known Land Rover builder told he threw them away


Sounds like he was an arsehole! sorry, but no engine is cost prohibitive to repair... well, certainly not any LR engine I know of.

yes, the bolts are one use only "stretch" type, but everything else is just as a normal engine... bearing shells, crank, head etc etc.
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  #17  
Old February 12th, 2011, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
How'd I know this would be your only contribution to this.
How did I know your only contribution to this would be commenting about me saying why not a puma.

I think, td5, 300tdi, puma are all good choices. I think it depends on budget and where you are getting the set up from. I think td5s are awesome.
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Are there shocks that I can addjust up and down like my friends LX460? That would be very cool!
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  #18  
Old February 12th, 2011, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toga2 View Post
Cruising at 70-75 mph is a must and will have to get ac to keep the dog cool.
That cruise speed is a bit high for a tdi. I have done it but its above the engines happy zone.

Td5 will do that all day long.

Td5 speedo
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  #19  
Old February 12th, 2011, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
That cruise speed is a bit high for a tdi. I have done it but its above the engines happy zone.

Td5 will do that all day long.

Td5 speedo
seen similar images and not only going down hill..
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  #20  
Old February 13th, 2011, 07:02 AM
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My 110: just after (on the way home!) having the 190bhp ECU flash. With a 1.2:1 transferbox, 235/85 tyres, 110 station wagon, full external cage, ARB type bar with winch... so quite heavy!

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v1...rent=50-70.mp4

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v1...rent=70-90.mp4

These were just in 5th gear planting the gas pedal down, no gear changes. on the flat too. no downhill stuff.
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