300tdi to 2.5td questions - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old November 13th, 2015, 08:59 AM
jay22
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300tdi to 2.5td questions

Hello everyone. First off I am stationed in Germany. Looking at buying my first defender 110 so all help is appreciated. I found a beautiful 110 which is exactly what I want. The only issue is that the engine is not original. It has a 300tdi and originally came with a 19j 2.5td. So onto the questions:

1. Would it be worth it to buy said defender and swap the engine myself?
2. I have researched and found the 300 tdi swaps to be quite expensive. Do I have a chance of posting a "for trade" ad(my 300tdi for your 19j 2.5td) and getting attention?

If I'm an idiot and need to move on just tell me. I am new to this so all comments and help is appreciated.
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  #2  
Old November 13th, 2015, 09:02 AM
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Probably not worth it. It depends on how they did the conversion. 2.5TD to 300TDI is not a bolt in conversion. It requires custom modifications and everyone does them differently. Most likely the engine mounts were cut off and new ones welded on and you would thus need to do that again.
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  #3  
Old November 13th, 2015, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay22 View Post
Hello everyone. First off I am stationed in Germany. Looking at buying my first defender 110 so all help is appreciated. I found a beautiful 110 which is exactly what I want. The only issue is that the engine is not original. It has a 300tdi and originally came with a 19j 2.5td. So onto the questions:

1. Would it be worth it to buy said defender and swap the engine myself?
2. I have researched and found the 300 tdi swaps to be quite expensive. Do I have a chance of posting a "for trade" ad(my 300tdi for your 19j 2.5td) and getting attention?

If I'm an idiot and need to move on just tell me. I am new to this so all comments and help is appreciated.
I think it depends on your skill set.
As John says, the mounts were most likely cut off.
If it's a 300TDI, don't trade it Just keep it and bring it over in your household goods if you can, otherwise contact someone like UD and ship it over.

If you have the long belhousing R380 or early long belhousing LT77, you might get by with leaving the 300 mounts where they are and adding the 19J mounts to the frame.
You would have to measure and see...

If you have the long belhousing transmission you might also be able to replace it with a short belhousing, especially if it comes with the 19J.
This might position the 19J far enough away from the 300TDI mounts to have both sets on the frame, again you'll need to measure.

If you have a really good skill set, you could always fabricate brackets from scratch that go from the 19J over to the existing 300TDI mounts.
This is the easiest route. There was a guy somewhere in Germany who posts up here that surely could make these brackets, but I don't remember exactly where in Germany he is.

If you've found a nice 110, I wouldn't let the engine stop you from buying it if you have time to deal with the swap.
Then again it's a lot easier for me because I do swaps all the time.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 10:53 AM
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The biggest issue would be, in my view, whether the 300Tdi was swapped in with the short LT77 or the long R380 transmission. If the former, it should be a reasonably straightforward proposition to drop it in. If the latter, I would think that would be harder.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
I think it depends on your skill set.
As John says, the mounts were most likely cut off.
If it's a 300TDI, don't trade it Just keep it and bring it over in your household goods if you can, otherwise contact someone like UD and ship it over.

If you have the long belhousing R380 or early long belhousing LT77, you might get by with leaving the 300 mounts where they are and adding the 19J mounts to the frame.
You would have to measure and see.
This. drive it til you're ready to ship it, and use your time to find a POS 19J powertrain from a breakeryard you can throw in along with mounts. then do the swap, and send your tdi powertrain seperately. And while the TDI is out, have it rebuilt, along with the tranny and tcase.
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  #6  
Old November 13th, 2015, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
The biggest issue would be, in my view, whether the 300Tdi was swapped in with the short LT77 or the long R380 transmission. If the former, it should be a reasonably straightforward proposition to drop it in. If the latter, I would think that would be harder.
Pretty near impossible to use a short bellhousing on a LHD with a 300TDI, AFAIK.
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  #7  
Old November 13th, 2015, 10:57 AM
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This. drive it til you're ready to ship it, and use your time to find a POS 19J powertrain from a breakeryard you can throw in along with mounts. then do the swap, and send your tdi powertrain seperately. And while the TDI is out, have it rebuilt, along with the tranny and tcase.
But why? Just buy a different truck that does not need work.
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  #8  
Old November 13th, 2015, 11:04 AM
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LR did do the 300Tdi retrofit kit, can't you try and prove this was done and thus an official factory conversion?
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Old November 13th, 2015, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by diesel_jim View Post
LR did do the 300Tdi retrofit kit, can't you try and prove this was done and thus an official factory conversion?
Really? There was a factory 200TDI retrofit kit. Pretty sure there is no bolt in way to install a 300TDI.

Regardless, it does not matter the customs. Must have the original engine type.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by diesel_jim View Post
LR did do the 300Tdi retrofit kit, can't you try and prove this was done and thus an official factory conversion?
Just like most things Land Rover no 2 are the same and this 300Tdi retrofit kit is something I have never heard of.

Do you have additional information, like a factory instruction booklet.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
But why? Just buy a different truck that does not need work.
agreed. finding the right stock truck should be plan A, but my understanding is they are getting very hard to find.
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  #12  
Old November 13th, 2015, 11:24 AM
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agreed. finding the right stock truck should be plan A, but my understanding is they are getting very hard to find.
I'm sure if he asked nicely, JimC would be able to lend a hand.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 11:56 AM
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Thank you all for your input. I am new to LR but not to cars. I want to do this in the least painful way possible(avoid all possible headaches).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
I'm sure if he asked nicely, JimC would be able to lend a hand.
Thank you for recommending someone I can talk to over here. I'll PM him and see if he can help me out.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 12:03 PM
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But why? Just buy a different truck that does not need work.
You guys underestimate how difficult it is to buy a nice truck over here. Sure, supply is greater, but it's just that many more crap trucks to sort through. Good stuff commands top dollar and goes fast. Europe is smaller than the US but still too big to run around all over willy nilly.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 12:05 PM
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if you want simple, here is a solid truck just waiting for you back here in the states, with a guy I trust (Jonathan Hanson). Save all the BS and make this into what you want.

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  #16  
Old November 13th, 2015, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JimC View Post
You guys underestimate how difficult it is to buy a nice truck over here. Sure, supply is greater, but it's just that many more crap trucks to sort through. Good stuff commands top dollar and goes fast. Europe is smaller than the US but still too big to run around all over willy nilly.
So it is easier to find a good used 2.5TD, gearbox and ancilliaries and rebuild the truck to take it including re-fabricating everything back to original?
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Old November 13th, 2015, 12:46 PM
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[QUOTE=rdavisinva;688223] retrofit kit is something I have never heard of [QUOTE]


RN offered the official "Land Rover 300Tdi Re-power kit" circa 2000 - 2001, back when the quarterly publication was a newspaper. They also produced a small color booklet extolling the 300Tdi. I have original copies of both. The brochure listed a few companies throughout the US that would install the kit.

They did an extensive write up when a customer inserted the kit & added a Zf4HP22 auto-box in his NAS D90. Then suddenly, RN distanced themselves from selling the kit.

The kit contained everything imaginable from the radiator/intercooler all the way to the point of where it joined the transfer case. Includes were weld on frame mounts and a template defining where to weld them onto the frame. It also included a complete exhaust system for a 110.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 12:53 PM
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Cool. Nobody seems to have a copy of the information though. Best I could find Info sought on Genuine LR 300tdi retrofit conversions/re-power kits - Defender Forum - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum It would be a good resource for people doing the conversion.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 01:06 PM
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EPA smacked the people selling the "kit" but I am sure if you call RN they will sell you all the parts.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 01:11 PM
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RN needs to have a "V8 service kit" that includes everthing needed to permanently resolve slipped liners and low mpg such as 300tdi, motor mounts, bell housing, etc...
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