300tdi timing belt change now problems - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 4th, 2009, 08:43 PM
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Todd Miller
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300tdi timing belt change now problems

Question for the 300 tdi pros. I had my timing belt changed as well as the thermostat, water pump, and P gasket. Now my disco emits a giant blueish cloud of smoke when I rev the engine. It is pretty much constant when in neutral and revving up to around 2000 rpms. Smells strong of diesel.
also, I now have a whining noise on acceleration when I get above about 25-30 mph. Constant as you accelerate but will go away when you let of the throttle. May also be a slight power loss. and finally seems like a lot of heat generated on the drivers side. so much so that you notice it escaping from between the hood and fender when standing next to the car.I don't recall that before.
Any ideas?
thanks
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  #2  
Old May 4th, 2009, 11:09 PM
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also forgot, changed the glow plugs too and the far back one had oil on it.?
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Old May 5th, 2009, 05:58 AM
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I'd be checking the IP timing......and I'm not sure what the whining is but if it wasn't present before the timing belt was changed and it is present now, I can't help but think that it must be associated.

Was it oil or fuel on the glow plug?
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  #4  
Old May 5th, 2009, 06:26 AM
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Don't you hate it when shit happens. I now start by pulling glow plugs and test compression - probably not the problem, but I check it now because it's easy. Check the gaps on the rocker arms. Then check to see it the IP is set right - pull the little round cover and see if the pin slips into the IP when the flywheel is appropriately pinned. If that's okay, then pull the cover and check the timing belt. Good luck.
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Old May 5th, 2009, 07:39 AM
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Matt the whining is new. the mechanic that did the work said the glow plug had oil on it. I know that could be the valve seal allowing oil in. could it just be that the smoke is because the engine has not been run in over two weeks? whining concerns me that it could be the turbo. but I am really guessing
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Old May 5th, 2009, 08:14 AM
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Sounds like a timing issue with the IP as Matt stated. THe wining cold be the belt not installed correctly or too tight...
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Old May 5th, 2009, 09:11 AM
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so the injection pump would cause the smoking? It is a blueish smoke not black, but smells very much like diesel exhaust. When revving the engine in neutral huge clouds of blue/grey smoke come out. As for the whining it really starts right near the shift points on acceleration. let off the throttle it stops. In 5th gear cruising on the hwy it goes away until you increase throttle to maintain or increase speed.
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Old May 5th, 2009, 09:30 AM
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I'm not a diesel expert by any means but I have been around one that ws purposely set with the cam timing off by a notch and it smoked the way you describe. I would not be surprised if this was your case and you found that exhaust gases were still burning on their way out of the exhaust manifold and through your turbo. that would account for most of the symptoms you describe. do you have an egt gauge fitted? you could also do a rudimentary check using an infrared thermometer.


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Originally Posted by discotdi
so the injection pump would cause the smoking? It is a blueish smoke not black, but smells very much like diesel exhaust. When revving the engine in neutral huge clouds of blue/grey smoke come out. As for the whining it really starts right near the shift points on acceleration. let off the throttle it stops. In 5th gear cruising on the hwy it goes away until you increase throttle to maintain or increase speed.
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Old May 5th, 2009, 09:44 AM
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No EGT, but I did notice and increase in the heat on the drivers side of the engine compartment. Would this also be a symptom of the exhaust gases burning in the manifold and turbo and could that cause the turbo to whine?
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Old May 5th, 2009, 11:17 AM
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I'm no expert but have and drive one. I agree with Matt and Dave. That said I wouldn't drive it. It sounds like you could be cooking the turbo seals, bearing, etc.If you have excessive heat where previously there wasn't any (these things run cool) it definately sounds like there is incomplete combustion. I would be worried about burning a hole in a piston etc.
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Old May 5th, 2009, 11:41 AM
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I've changed my 300tdi belt once myself. I've changed a similar belt on our '85 BMW 524td numerous times (I've owned it since 1988). With as few of these engines around, I really would not trust someone to do it right. My speculation is that your belt is off 1 tooth. Your whine sounds like it is engine RPM related since it comes and goes at various speeds (might want to try it by reving up & down while parked in the driveway to discover exactly at what RPM it occurs). I've always been VERY paranoid about getting the timing back exactly the way it was. I paint small "dots" on the belt and corresponding "geared" tooth before I ever take the belt off. I also use drill bits for allinment dowels in the holes in the FIP and else where. Once the belt is off, I then set the new belt a-top of the old one and transfer the "dots" to the new belt. I also (here's the paranoid part) count the notches on the belt to make sure I transfer the dots exactly. Changing the belt is straight forward and fairly easy. The whole sequence is very well laid out on Difflock. It can be a little tough to get the lower main pully off (since i don't own the special tools) but I simply used a leather belt as a tension strap for that. Another thing that's worth the time is to pull off the front grill and radiator, This will give you a full frontal access and view of all the pulleys and belt "gears" and you can clean out you intercooler while your at it.

Dennis

Follow-up Post:

PS. Be sure to loosen the main shaft (crank) gear bolt befor you remove the old timing belt. Go to the Difflock site for complete step by step take down.

Dennis
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Old May 5th, 2009, 03:40 PM
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Dennis and all thanks for the advice. I am going to try and figure out how to check the timing now that it is all back together. Sounds like it must be a timing issue.
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Old May 5th, 2009, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis
Follow-up Post:

PS. Be sure to loosen the main shaft (crank) gear bolt befor you remove the old timing belt.
........
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Old May 5th, 2009, 09:40 PM
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Update. It seems that the Yorkshire Man Wanker, who shall remain un-named, that did the engine swap on my Disco used a v8 tranny or at least a v8 bellhousing, so I do not have the hole to lock the fly wheel. this could explain the timing being off now. any suggestions as to how I can lock the fly wheel in order to get the timing right?
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Old May 5th, 2009, 09:53 PM
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You have to pull the cover and line up the marks on the timing gear and the rear cover. The pin should go into the IP and the TDC should be at that point. I had to do this with the engine on a stand without the flywheel. It makes sense when you get it apart and look at it.
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Old May 5th, 2009, 10:05 PM
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supposedly that is what was done. although he "locked" the fly wheel by putting a pin in the keyway hole.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 07:45 AM
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It's really not that hard to do to change the timing belt (200tdi is much worse), it's just a pain to pull the radiator, fan, pulley, etc (and in my case the winch) to see everything. Once the cover is off, you should be able to see if there is an issue. Just put a big wrench on the crankshaft bolt and move the engine thru a couple cycles. There are things that will either line up or won't. I personally use the 300tdi engine manual to set torque on the tensioner and adjust the IP pulley.
Have you pulled the hose between the turbo and the intercooler to see if oil is getting by the turbo seals? I had a situation where the oil was being pushed by the oil seals - at idle no smoke - push on the gas pedal lots of smoke. Oil was getting to the turbo, but there was an obstruction to it returning to the engine.

Follow-up Post:

Also when I bent a connecting rod, I was also blowing smoke - which is why I suggested a compression test.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 10:40 AM
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Chris thanks for the tips. I assume this "lining up" method will work even if you can't lock the fly wheel? I will also check the turbo hoses. As for a connecting rod I suppose one could have bent or something but prior to changing the belt evrything was perfect except for the oil leaking into the timing belt housing. I just don't know when a rod could have been damaged etc.

BTW is the crank shaft suppose to be reverse threaded? I thought I heard this, but mine wasn't.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 11:25 AM
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Not reverse threaded- use an impact driver to get it out. If the pully was recently off it may pull off easily, I ended up fabricating a puller.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 05:47 PM
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Well back at it again and no luck still smokes etc. guy that did the work pulled the front cover today and turned the crank until the mark on the gear and the timing mark on the cover lined up then slid pin into the IP. After this started engine and it still smoked like crazy and ran a little rough ?????? don't know what to do know
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