300tdi smoke at neutral throttle - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old March 10th, 2009, 06:25 PM
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300tdi smoke at neutral throttle

Background: 300tdi with approx. 150k (mi) but could be more. I changed the timing belt about 10k ago and it looked great, timing is still good based on the marks and holes.

I have noticed smoke (mostly white with blue twinge) when the engine is cold and descending down hill with neutral throttle. Once the engine warms the smoke disappears, so I have not worried. But over the last week I have been driving at around 15,000ft (only really occurs above 12,000ft) and have noticed plumes of white smoke at neutral throttle only when descending hills. If I get on the throttle it disappears, if I completely let off it disappears.

Otherwise the engine is running perfect, good power, not hot (water and EGT), normal fuel consumption.

What could this be? Normal? Oil passed rings? Turbo seals?

any help advise would be great.
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  #2  
Old March 10th, 2009, 06:32 PM
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White smoke typically means incomplete combustion/fueling problem - when is the last time you changed your fuel filter?
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  #3  
Old March 10th, 2009, 07:17 PM
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Hey Jim... thanks for the input.
Just changed the filter, and I have been getting good diesel. This has been happening with multiple tanks.

Would a bluish tint be inline with over fueling?

No white smoke when on the throttle up hill, only down hill at neutral throttle.

FYI- I have been adjusting the fuel pressure for altitude to reduce smoke and EGT. The air filter is clean.
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  #4  
Old March 10th, 2009, 07:27 PM
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The extent of my diagnostic capabilities is to change the fuel filter!

Bluish tent on my Alfa means its burning oil, which it is in fact doing. It wouldn't be surprising exactly if your diesel was starting to have some oil go past the rings at 150k, but you'd hope it would hang on longer.

I'll have to stand aside and wait for more ideas from the people that actually work on these motors...
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  #5  
Old March 10th, 2009, 08:00 PM
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Definitely sounds like a mix problem...

Not the fuel filter... I think it would be prudent to check the timing again... this happened to me when the bolt on the timing belt didn't get tightened down properly and although it seemed to be all set it would slip a bit especially on downhills and produce a wonderful blue smoke...
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  #6  
Old March 10th, 2009, 09:19 PM
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I sent you a PM on what fixed mine when it did the same thing.
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  #7  
Old March 10th, 2009, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D90user
Otherwise the engine is running perfect, good power, not hot (water and EGT), normal fuel consumption.
Then forget about it. Those engines smoke like hell from brand new, it's the 300Tdi signature .
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Old March 10th, 2009, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFD
Then forget about it. Those engines smoke like hell from brand new, it's the 300Tdi signature .
Mine's never smoked a whiff, except when I didn't change the fuel filter...

-knocks on wood-
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  #9  
Old March 10th, 2009, 09:59 PM
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Mine smoke like a train, i think the bad gasoil we are getting here from Chavéz has something to do with it . I do change my fuel filter often and keep my valves at 0.2. I use it to smoke out mosquitos when i'm camping...
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  #10  
Old March 11th, 2009, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFD
I use it to smoke out mosquitos when i'm camping...
I may reconsider trying to fix the problem

I really don't think the timing is off. The problem only occurs at high altitude.

Eric suggested dirty injectors, which I was considering. To recap his suggestion use strong injector cleaner in the fuel filter in conjunction with the "italian tune up". This fixed his similar problems. I tried this once on a VW diesel and had mixed results but I'm going to give it a shot, although it may just be time for a new set of injectors.

Any other possibilities?

I guess what I was really looking for was someone to say...yep your turbo is going you should pick up a TGV while down in South America... anyone?... Beuler?
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  #11  
Old March 11th, 2009, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D90user
I guess what I was really looking for was someone to say...yep your turbo is going you should pick up a TGV while down in South America... anyone?... Beuler?
Well if that's what you want someone to say...
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  #12  
Old March 11th, 2009, 12:50 AM
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Brad,
Just for my information, what bolt was loose on you timing belt? tensioner?
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  #13  
Old March 11th, 2009, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D90user
Brad,
Just for my information, what bolt was loose on you timing belt? tensioner?
I'm trying to find a diagram that will point it out.... so I can circle it for you but until I find one.... it's the bolt that holds the cogged wheel that comes with a timing kit (installation was by the local dealer just before I bought it so I initially ruled it out as a possible cause). Initially the only symptom was blue smoke going down hill at high altitude but got progressively worse...
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  #14  
Old March 11th, 2009, 08:43 AM
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Steve,

Can you get your injectors cleaned in a diesel
lab ? There are probably a few decent diesel
workshops in Lima.

You are also probably getting poor quality
diesel. Keep draining your water out of your
pre-filter often. Station owners don't check
their tanks for water too often.
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  #15  
Old March 11th, 2009, 10:23 AM
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smoke

In addition to the obvious stuff, engine timing, fuel filter, quality of glows, etc. is to check the function of the crank case breather system. If your fortunate, it may only be that something is clogged or not working properly in this regard. In Diesels, the crankcase needs good air circulation otherwise deposit build up starts knocking away at parts in addition to creating an unfavorable pressure build up in the top end which may result in pushing oil through things like valve stem seals and guides, especially once the engine is warmed.
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  #16  
Old March 11th, 2009, 10:56 AM
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Julian- So far diesel has been good, I drain the water traps often and have had little water. I have avoided the "grifo' stations due to the bad reputation. I will look into a cleaning in Ariquipa or Cusco becuase I'm planning on avoiding Lima like the plague. Nothing but bad stories from other travelers about corrupt police seeking bribes. I met another Brazilian defender owner who had a brick thrown through his windshield at a stop sign for no apparent reason.

Has anyone had any success cleaning the Bosch injectors? It is accepted in the VW and benz forums that it is just better to buy new...

Mark- That is a interesting thought, I'll give the breather the once over with some mineral spirits, at the next campground.

thanks for the input guys
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  #17  
Old March 11th, 2009, 11:31 AM
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Bosch Injectors

Steve,

I wouldnt suggest an overhaul of the Injectors while on the road. These engines are direct injection (vs. somthing like typical GM indirect) with high pressure injector nozzles. Every part has a close tolerance. Every part has a relationship to the rest of the assembly and it needs to all go back together in an clean room environment.

Suggest taking them out and first letting them soak in a diesel freindly solution like Stanadyne injection cleaner, then dissassemble for inspection but not until you have rebuild kits on the ready. last time I went through this I waited a couple weeks from the UK to get parts. Also suggest using Stanadyne additive in your machine on a regular basis due to the quality of fuels out there- everywhere.
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  #18  
Old March 11th, 2009, 07:05 PM
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Its the altitude. If you could atomize the fuel better it may all combust. New/rebuilt or tuned injectors. I suggested a service to 'tune' injectors in the performance thread. Maybe that is a direction you may want to take.

If you are operating it at altitude a lot you can plug the boost diaphram line to effectively cut fueling back until you are back in regular altitude. Then unplug that line.

JP
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  #19  
Old March 11th, 2009, 08:49 PM
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Steve, i just realize that you are a smoke freak .
You have a thread, a few months ago, about that
particular subject.
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  #20  
Old March 11th, 2009, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFD
Steve, i just realize that you are a smoke freak .
You have a thread, a few months ago, about that
particular subject.
I just can't help it wait... what are we talking about ?

The problem was happening before but only when cold. I will follow up on this after I try a cleaning treatment, then probably new injectors when I get back to the states.
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