300tdi no start stop solenoid clicks - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 23rd, 2015, 10:12 PM
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300tdi no start stop solenoid clicks

Hi everyone,
I've been having some issues getting my 300tdi to start for the first time. I'm wondering if it's an air issue like I've been reading others have had. I see the 12v pump idea that's out there now. But here is what is going on with mine:

I have fuel to the injection pump and the stop solenoid clicks. I have all the injector lines cracked and don't get any fuel weeping out. I've left the feed line to the injection pump cracked while a friend cranked and I had fuel there. I can leave the key on and hook/unhook the wire and it clicks. It's 12Vs to the solenoid direct wire from aux fuse block. Also I can't seem to get the filter to prime with the lever on the fuel pump.

Other issue I have is the bleed screw bubbles while I crank it. I've put in new screws and swapped for new copper washers. But cranking it over with the bleed screw open gets the fuel to the filter. I don't get how that bleed screw bubbles...I've torqued that thing down and no stopping. I just bought a new Bosch filter housing and I think I will try and swap out that bearmach filter housing.
Lift pump is new. I have 4 gallons of fuel in the tank.

Seems like an air issue, but I thought it was odd that I had fuel to the IP but nothing coming out. Can the solenoid be bad but click? Any thoughts?

On the plus side things are looking pretty good otherwise.

Thanks,
Pete
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  #2  
Old February 23rd, 2015, 10:28 PM
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The fuel solenoid could be broken or plugged. Unscrew it from the pump. All the parts can then come out and it should be obvious or not.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 10:38 PM
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I always fill new filters with fresh ATF. Never had a problem starting one this way. It can take awhile to fill the filter if all the lines are empty.
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  #4  
Old February 23rd, 2015, 10:53 PM
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You may have an air leak on the suction side that a 12V fuel pump will expose.
I could be wrong, but that sure sounds like your issue.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 11:14 PM
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it sure looks purdy for a non-starter
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 11:38 PM
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tighten up the injector lines - fill the filter with fuel - run the starter a few seconds with the solenoid disconnected - reconnect stop solenoid and turn it over…

Just did the same with this customer truck last week.

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Old February 23rd, 2015, 11:58 PM
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He has good fuel flow at the inlet of the injection pump.... Look at the solenoid. It take two minutes.
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Old February 24th, 2015, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
He has good fuel flow at the inlet of the injection pump.... Look at the solenoid. It take two minutes.
And no pressure at the injectors… Close off the injector lines - solenoid is not likely the issue if it is clicking on.

Tdi photo from a current customer project for good measure
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Old February 24th, 2015, 06:35 AM
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If you still haven't found the leak you can try to disconnect the line after the manual pump, on the side of the block, as it connects to the pump. Crank the pump by hand or the engine and see if you have fuel. If not you have a problem in the lines or in the gas tank pick-up. (you have enough gas right?) If you have fuel after the pump then check every line connection. Was your injection pump working prior to the work that you have done?
Of course you could avoid all of this checking by installing a fuel pump like RD says.
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  #10  
Old February 24th, 2015, 09:18 PM
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Thanks for all the responses guys. I'll dive in again this weekend and report back.
Thanks!
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  #11  
Old February 24th, 2015, 10:25 PM
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Let me try saying it this way, perhaps it will have a better effect over post #4.
Don't hook up a 12V fuel pump, because that will expose your air leak and allow you to fix the air leak and start the engine.
Don't install the 12V fuel pump because it will allow you to fix the problem.
Don't do it !!!
Try fiddling with a bunch of other things and waste all your free time.
Again, don't install a 12V fuel pump because it will let you fix the problem so ignore post #4 and follow this advice...
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UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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Old February 24th, 2015, 11:41 PM
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It took mine a while to start up after a rebuild. I cranked a bunch of times to fill the IP to get fuel to the lines. might want to tow it around in gear with the lines cracked at the injectors. after the tow you might see some fuel spray.

unless its your solenoid.
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  #13  
Old February 25th, 2015, 12:51 AM
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quick question: I am going to be searching for a 300tdi for another project... what should I be looking for as far as year of manufacture, etc..
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  #14  
Old February 27th, 2015, 01:13 AM
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Update from tonight:

I got it started!
But, and there is always a but it seems. I needed to start it with assistance of a little tackling fuel (aka starting fluid). Since I don't have my snorkel installed I could give a little shot in the air intake and when it picked up the fumes it started. It seemed to knock pretty heavy before it got going. but when it did it smoothed out. I shut it off and started it a few times. But each time needed a little shot of starting fluid.

I replaced my filter housing with the bosh unit I got and its not leaking like the bearmach unit. I also replaced the stop solenoid. When I bench tested the solenoid it was all over the place. Sometimes working, sometimes not, sometimes stuck retracted, sometimes not. So I think that was the issue. I cranked it over awhile after replacing these things and I could finally smell a little diesel smoke. But it wouldn't ever seem to take off. It always seemed to be very close to starting but not enough to do it.

I also observed some oil coming out of the manifold pipe. When I got the engine it was filled with oil. I didn't think the engine would be shipped full of oil, and one night i put it on the stand and flipped it over and the next AM I was going to put a new oil pan on it. In the AM I found oil all over the place. Thus letting me know it was full of oil. Well that was months if not almost a year ago. I've since turned over the motor by hand many times and felt no issues. I didn't think any oil would have made it to the combustion chamber but perhaps some did. Anyways it has come out, but perhaps related to the hard start?

So tonight after a little shot of starting fluid it starts, a bit of cranking and then a rough start, and then it seems to run ok. I've never seen or heard a 300Tdi besides mine, so I don't have a real basis to compare. The only other diesel I had was an 04 dodge 2500. But it seems like it idles a little rough (it visibly vibrates the air cleaner0. I've hit the accelerator a few times to get the revs up. I can hear to turbo spool up and it revs up ok but seems like a little hesitation and then a fumble when it drops back down to idle (almost sounds like it will stall). My boost sensor isn't showing anything for boost. But I will recheck that it is mapped correct tomorrow. Oil pressure is 23 psi at idle. And I am running an auto trans as well.

So that's where I am at tonight. Indeed a happy day that after a couple years it starts, good to smell diesel exhaust in the garage. But still some thing to figure out. Funny thing about all the tach talk on Zach's post and I had no tach signal tonight.....thought I had the right post on the alternator....

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Pete
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Old February 27th, 2015, 01:39 AM
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I'm not convinced that you have the consistent fuel pressure at the IP inlet that you may think you have. When I first fired up my new motor, we had two leaks to stop. One was at the (factory) sedimenter by the tank and the other was at the fuel filter. I experienced very similar hesitation during acceleration until we got it licked. I strongly suggest taking Robert's advice and adding the 12V pump. I didn't do this but I wish I had. We would have found the leaks more quickly. I don't know much about your truck but if you have a factory (military only, I think...) sedimenter, I also recommend replacing it with one of Robert's glass units. It's a superior setup and less prone to leaks. You may also have a bad lift pump but the 12V pump should help you identify that.
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Old February 27th, 2015, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncoduecer View Post
Update from tonight: I got it started!
But, and there is always a but it seems. I needed to start it with assistance of a little tackling fuel (aka starting fluid). It seemed to knock pretty heavy before it got going. Any thoughts? Thanks, Pete
Starting fluid should NEVER be used.
It is much volatile for the compression ratios of a diesel engine and will cause the surface of the pistons to fracture and or melt.
That is part of that loud clacking you hear at start up.
Gasoline soaked into a rag and placed over the intake to allow some petrol fumes to be drawn in will accomplish the same thing without causing any damage.

You either have a suction side air leak in the fuel system, a bad lift pump, or your IP is unable to make enough fuel pressure at the speed of starter rotation to start the engine and is going bad.

Did anyone mention trying a 12V fuel pump to expose and or thus rule out the suction side air to fuel leaks or bad lift pump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell View Post
I strongly suggest taking Robert's advice and adding the 12V pump. I didn't do this but I wish I had. We would have found the leaks more quickly.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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Old February 27th, 2015, 12:15 PM
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Good info thanks guys. Didn't know that about diesels and starting fluid. I can't count the number of cans we used on dump trucks and old equipment in past summer jobs!
I'm going to see if anywhere in town has any 12v pumps that catch my eye. Otherwise I'll get one off summit racing today.
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Old February 27th, 2015, 01:07 PM
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There is nothing wrong with ether and diesel in general. Lots of equipment have it built in from the factory. You just can't use it on one with glow plugs. The plugs will ignite the ether at the wrong part of the cycle.
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Old February 28th, 2015, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncoduecer View Post
Good info thanks guys. Didn't know that about diesels and starting fluid. I can't count the number of cans we used on dump trucks and old equipment in past summer jobs!
I'm going to see if anywhere in town has any 12v pumps that catch my eye. Otherwise I'll get one off summit racing today.
Yes some backhoes had built in starting fluid systems, but the fluid was less volatile that what you can buy at the local auto supply that is commonly used in gasoline engines.

To be safe a gas soaked rag placed over the inlet will safely achieve the same results.

When I worked at the Land Rover dealer, we replaced 2X 2.25 diesels ruined by starting fluid and years later I picked up a 2.25 diesel parts engine from Elton Wright who now works at Blue Ridge Diesel in Salem, VA.

I also know specifically of a 300TDI with a cracked piston brought about by starting fluid.

I always mount a sedimenter before the 12V pump to trap water and particulate before it reaches the pump.
Be careful tugging on the fittings of this 12V pump as the housing is plastic and molded around the fittings, it is possible to pull the fitting right out of the housing when removing a stuck hose that is best slit with a blade if you need to remove it.
Here's the 12V pump, Same unit is available at most auto parts chain stores:

http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gasket-12D-.../dp/B001QVTI5U

I don't use the little pre-filter, substituting a 1/8" NPT to 5/16" barb fitting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
There is nothing wrong with ether and diesel in general. Lots of equipment have it built in from the factory. You just can't use it on one with glow plugs. The plugs will ignite the ether at the wrong part of the cycle.
Was not aware that the glow plugs ignite it at the wrong time, but makes sense, John B.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #20  
Old March 1st, 2015, 07:13 PM
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Turns out my town was out of the 12D mr. gasket pumps. But cool that we must have them at some point. So I ordered this one: https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...s/parts/12-427
It says its ok for diesel and it looks a little more compact. But yea, good point on the plastic nature of them. This will be here Monday.

Over the weekend looking at things more I did notice that the line from the lift pump to the filter was wet at the fitting. I tightened it up a couple more times over that last couple days and it continues to be wet. So I bet this is where the air is getting in if it is able to weep.

Next issue, I was going to replace the olive nut with a new one since it was leaking. However I can't seem to get the old olive off the lift pump. I read a few posts that sounds like they don't come off....I have a spare lift pump. Anyone have advice on these olives and how to get them off?
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