300Tdi IP question for white blue smoke - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old April 22nd, 2015, 07:17 PM
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Question 300Tdi IP question for white blue smoke

Evening Fellas

My recon motor with less than 15k miles on it has just started putting out white/blue smoke, which smells of diesel whilst idling and driving. Having read many of the previous posts on this forum and others I've initially discounted a cracked head and burning oil or coolant, this seems a case of over fueling for some reason. So I've already checked the IP timing and found it to be as expected, with the timing pin fitting as it should. Air filte ris clean and it also starts instantly first time but runs more roughly than usual and smokes, although is still capable of pulling 70mph. As it appears to be over fueling with the engine running I pulled off the injector spill lines one at a time and confirmed diesel coming out of the nipple on cylinder one but no obvious flow from the other injectors. As this is tied to the IP return and ultimately the tank, with the engine off I confirmed that the IP return to tank line was clear. On restarting the engine with this line still disconnected there was a strong and constant flow of diesel from the metal tube end of the spill line connected to the IP return line downstream of the IP, I would estimate between 1-2 pints per minute.

My question is this normal or is it suggestive of an internal issue with the pump and hence causing what I think is over fueling???

Thanks in advance for any insight you may have
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  #2  
Old April 22nd, 2015, 08:12 PM
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mark kellgren
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Generally blue = oil. I'm concerned that your turbo seal is starting to leak. was the turbo reconditioned with the engine?

Are you losing coolant with no external leaks? Is your crank pressurized (quick check to see if your oil cap resting unlocked on the fill hole will stay there).

a coolant pressure test, and compression test can confirm your head gasket.

take your turbo lower hose off and see if it is just damp with oil or pooling oil.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 09:02 PM
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well if your timing is good and you're ruling out oil, then next step it sounds to me is about 45 degree turn to the lean on your IP boost diaphragm and see it that improves it. that'll lean it out a bit.

you have an egt?
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  #4  
Old April 22nd, 2015, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
Generally blue = oil. I'm concerned that your turbo seal is starting to leak. was the turbo reconditioned with the engine?

Are you losing coolant with no external leaks? Is your crank pressurized (quick check to see if your oil cap resting unlocked on the fill hole will stay there).

a coolant pressure test, and compression test can confirm your head gasket.

take your turbo lower hose off and see if it is just damp with oil or pooling oil.
Mark

Turbo is new, no crank pressure, no coolant loss, no oil pooling, but exhaust smells of unburned diesel hence my over fueling theory.

Cheers

Fraser
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  #5  
Old April 22nd, 2015, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
well if your timing is good and you're ruling out oil, then next step it sounds to me is about 45 degree turn to the lean on your IP boost diaphragm and see it that improves it. that'll lean it out a bit.

you have an egt?
Yes but why out of the blue, no pun intended should it suddenly do this? IMHO something has gone wrong with the internals of the IP, I say that because this was also a LR Recon unit, which sadly is 2 months out of warranty. Thats why I need to know if the return rate to the tank is normal, or if anyone else can shed light on the IP operation. No EGR fitted,

Cheers

Fraser
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  #6  
Old April 22nd, 2015, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraser61 View Post

Yes but why out of the blue, no pun intended should it suddenly do this? IMHO something has gone wrong with the internals of the IP, I say that because this was also a LR Recon unit, which sadly is 2 months out of warranty. Thats why I need to know if the return rate to the tank is normal, or if anyone else can shed light on the IP operation. No EGR fitted,

Cheers

Fraser
Maybe the ip sprocket slipped on the hub. Advance timing a bit and see if it improves the symptoms. Easy test
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 09:29 PM
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Diesel smelling smoke is unburnt fuel. It does not mean too much fuel. Too much fuel is black. Unburnt fuel means it has been injected to late to burn or there is a cylinder that is not combusting. Check the valve lash and then spray patterns.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Diesel smelling smoke is unburnt fuel. It does not mean too much fuel. Too much fuel is black. Unburnt fuel means it has been injected to late to burn or there is a cylinder that is not combusting. Check the valve lash and then spray patterns.
What's valve lash please? I'm also thinking a duff injector could be a cause. One thing I did notice was that when I cracked off each injector in turn to bleed out any air as a precaution I noticed the engine "stumbled" more when done on injector number 4!

Cheers

Fraser
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 10:05 PM
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Stumbling more means that one is good. If it did not change then that cylinder is not doing anything.

Valve lash is the clearance between the rocker and valve stem cap. This is supposed to be checked regularly. If it gets too loose, a cap can fall out. If you lose an intake cap that cylinder will not do much.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Stumbling more means that one is good. If it did not change then that cylinder is not doing anything.

Valve lash is the clearance between the rocker and valve stem cap. This is supposed to be checked regularly. If it gets too loose, a cap can fall out. If you lose an intake cap that cylinder will not do much.
What I meant to suggest was that whilst the other 3 obviously made the engine run a little worse, the 4th one made it run worse again, the thinking being if the injector wasn't 100% in the first place then this behavior suggested suggested to me that may be the exception. That said I will check all as you have suggested as well as the valve clearances, as they are very valid possible causes.

Thanks

Fraser
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  #11  
Old April 30th, 2015, 12:50 AM
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OK to let everyone know the result of the investigation. Took the IP and the injectors to M&D Distributors of Houston, Texas who checked all to Bosch specs. Found the pump actually underfuelling as well as the aneroid setting (top of pump adjustment for prre boost) also low. But the cause of my smoke was a broken injector which was jammed open. Tomorrow I replace that unit and hopefully get a positive result. Thanks to all for your guidance to get me to here 🍻👍🏻

Chhers

Fraser
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  #12  
Old April 30th, 2015, 07:01 AM
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Great news! Thanks for posting outcome. Conclusions help us all down the road. Glad it wasn't a head gasket or worse.
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Old April 30th, 2015, 08:21 AM
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Fraser:
Following John Bs advice will go a long way to find the fault.
He mentioned valve adjustment and injector spray patterns.

I would check the sedimenter and fuel filter first to see if you got a bad batch of fuel.
Bad fuel with emulsified water will give the symptoms you describe.
Try running it off a can of new clean fuel that you know is free of water & debris and see if it makes a difference.

If not:
My guess based on the facts you present is that you have a leaking injector dumping fuel into one or more cylinders.

DO NOT start monkeying with the IP settings.
If you do, you'll only have to go back and set it back right again when you find the real problem.
If it worked well, and then didn't without making adjustments after only 15K, there is a 99.999999999999999999999999999999% chance your IP is fine and the problem is somewhere else.
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