300tdi highway expectations - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old February 15th, 2015, 09:52 AM
aosias's Avatar
aosias
Status: Offline
Alexandra
1995 D90
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,348
Registry
300tdi highway expectations

I wanted to get some input on realistic highway driving expectations. I recently drove the 110 on I70 and it struggled with the hills and maintaining any speed.

The stretch of highway was about about a 6% grade from Golden to Evergreen. It was about 10 miles, mostly up but some points where you get a break. Unloaded truck. She could hold about 45 mph and there were two times when the EGT hit 1400 so I had to back off. The coolant temp stayed around 190-200 for the duration of the drive.

I normally drive around town at 45-50 mph and she does well. This was one of the first times I've headed up I-70 with her and it wasn't too impressive. I'd like to be going up the hill around 55mph.

The primary question is do I have realistic expectations of the truck? If she should be able to handle uphill at 55 mph and she's not making those kind of speeds where do I start looking?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old February 15th, 2015, 09:55 AM
Iamkraig's Avatar
Iamkraig
Status: Offline
Kraig
1987 defender 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 593
Registry
What's your transfer case ratio, diff ratio, and tire size?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 15th, 2015, 10:04 AM
aosias's Avatar
aosias
Status: Offline
Alexandra
1995 D90
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,348
Registry
I believe the transfer case is 4.1. Not sure on the diff ratio but the axles are stock. Tires are 265/75/16.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old February 15th, 2015, 10:25 AM
1of40's Avatar
1of40
Status: Offline
1of40
NAS 97SW & 83 One Ten Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Potomac Falls & Wintergreen, Virginia
Posts: 6,075
Registry
There's an easy to use tool on Ashcroft's site. Enter some vehicle specific data and it estimates the range of performance one should expect assuming stock tuning and peek maintenance/engine condition. If you find your truck is performing at the low end of the range then you might start with a check on engine compression. If the compression ratios are strong then perhaps it's just a matter of tuning. Lack of strong compression is probably not something that should be masked by high performance tuning as a long term solution.

Clay
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 15th, 2015, 10:29 AM
rovertrader's Avatar
rovertrader
Status: Online
Dale
Tithonus 110, D-90, 109 S/T 5-door
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Marshville, NC USA
Posts: 4,626
Alex, realisticly you are about norm. I know of two Tdi's gernading when towing up Vail Pass. And here on east coast at 2k elevation, my 130 Tdi was 3rd/4th gear and 50 tops.
While a 1.2 case may afford better top end, it will hurt on the grades you have. I have driven 110 Tdi's a bunch in Co, and it is a shifting game when climbing such grades at elevation...
Not what you want to hear I am sure, but also not worth pushing it too hard.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old February 15th, 2015, 11:03 AM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,231
Registry
Gearing does not matter as you can shift.... The only time is is a pain is if one gear is too low and another too high.

How fast can you go on the flats? Absolute top speed, flat road, no head wind? That will give a benchmark to see what power you have.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 15th, 2015, 11:07 AM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by aosias View Post
I believe the transfer case is 4.1. Not sure on the diff ratio but the axles are stock. Tires are 265/75/16.
Alex:
The standard T-case options for defender style vehicles are 1.6, 1.4, & 1.2.
There is no such thing as a 4.1, but you probably meant 1.4.
There were however a custom diff ratio of 4.1 commonly called a 4.10.

A 6 degree upgrade with the 265/75/16 tires will take it's toll on the ability of the 300 to pull you up and over, so the lack of performance scenario you describe is typical.

On flat ground without a head wind you should be able to reach 80 - 85 MPH and faster downhill with a tailwind.

Just think how bad it would have been with one of the pre-TDI engines.
With the 2.5 N/A or 2.5 TD you would have probably been in low range.

We installed a 2.8 liter Isuzu 4JB1-T in a 110 this fall and turned up the fuel a little and added a manual boost controller.
The owner lives at the top of a mountain in CO and claims he can climb any upgrade in the state @ 60 - 70 MPH.
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 15th, 2015, 01:40 PM
CMSgt Bo's Avatar
CMSgt Bo
Status: Online
Bo
1985 One Ten
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Banner Elk NC
Posts: 782
I've spent the last 3 years in Colorado and experienced the same thing as you going between CoS and Breck. My 110 has a 300 Tdi with full length intercooler and pumping a bit more fuel with power being delivered thru a 1.2 transfer case to 7.50 x 16 tires (now 265/75-16). I can hit 80+ in the flats (have seen 95 downhill) but have to constantly row thru the gears to maintain 45 mph on long uphill grades. I'm lucky to see 35 mph on steeper grades like on Pikes Peak.

In the end, it is what it is.
__________________
Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 15th, 2015, 05:42 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,231
Registry
So I added a grade calc to my power/speed estimator. I'm showing around 68 mph in 4th on a 5% grade and say 58 in 5th. Lift, roof rack, engine tired, etc.. would make the numbers lower.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Untitled.png
Views:	87
Size:	59.0 KB
ID:	113843  
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old February 15th, 2015, 05:46 PM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
Alex, I think I remember a discussion a long time ago where we identified your T-case as a 1.4.
I think others are correct in that you'd be sacrificing too much to gain very little by swapping to a 1.2 T-case.

There are no mountain grades where I live and I have a 300tdi w/ 1.2 T-case and routinely make 75mph on flat to 5-8 percent grades, but when you can't maintain your momentum or are on a long grade incline, it is hard for the 300 to make enough power to stay in the optimum boost range.

1400 degrees is really high on the EGTs and you may want to make sure you didn't do any damage there. Even after tuning my injector pump my EGTs never creep past 1000 and that's when I'm wide open under full boost going up a long incline. Maybe if I were towing so,etching I'd see EGTs above that, but then again if I were towing something I would likely to be going over 65, so I'd probably be using 4th gear.

I forgot, are you running any larger intercooler or VNT? Or is it a stock setup?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old February 15th, 2015, 06:21 PM
TDI Guy's Avatar
TDI Guy
Status: Offline
Randy
2015 LR4
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 4,573
Registry
I would upgrade the Intercooler and with that and a little tuning you will definitely have more power. Or even a VNT upgrade as well. Might want to check your hoses to make sure you are not loosing any boost.
__________________
Legend in My Own Mind.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old February 15th, 2015, 07:22 PM
1of40's Avatar
1of40
Status: Offline
1of40
NAS 97SW & 83 One Ten Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Potomac Falls & Wintergreen, Virginia
Posts: 6,075
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDI Guy View Post
I would upgrade the Intercooler and with that and a little tuning you will definitely have more power. Or even a VNT upgrade as well. Might want to check your hoses to make sure you are not loosing any boost.
Randy, what's a parts budget need to be for a proper end to end performance upgrade?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old February 15th, 2015, 07:50 PM
aosias's Avatar
aosias
Status: Offline
Alexandra
1995 D90
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,348
Registry
It's 1.4

I drove toward Kansas a few weeks ago and it was 65-70 mph top speed.

She has an updated inter cooler and an extra oil cooler. I believe everything else is pretty stock.

Glad to hear it's not too out of the norm for the lower speeds at altitude.

I really don't need too much motivation to start upgrading parts to gain power.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old February 15th, 2015, 07:56 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,231
Registry
If 70 is your top speed, then something is wrong with the truck and you should figure that out before trying to soup it up.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old February 15th, 2015, 08:23 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,231
Registry
And 1400 is really high. With a big intercooler and egts that high you should have tons of power so something is not right.

Do you know boost levels?
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old February 15th, 2015, 08:54 PM
aosias's Avatar
aosias
Status: Offline
Alexandra
1995 D90
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,348
Registry
I don't have a boost gauge, it's on the list to add.

I have the Madman and it runs egt, coolant, oil temp and oil pressure. My sender is broken for both oil temp and oil pressure. I think it's something with the wiring I just haven't looked into it.

Would having a radiator muff create the higher gets? I use it for around town, didn't think to take it off for highway/hill driving like that.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old February 15th, 2015, 09:06 PM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
That Madman gauge is awesome. I looked into getting one, but went VDO instead to keep costs down.
I agree with John, something is amiss if you're seeing 1400 and not towing something.

I'm in your camp Alex in that just a few more HP and MPH would make a huge difference. Randy's VNT kit is on my wish list for next year, but there is only so much you can squeeze out of a 300 without Rollin Coal or heating things up.

I've commmented previously in the EGT thread and other threads that after tuning my IP and adding the full width Alisport IC that I have seen speeds up to 90mph on a flat surface w/ no tail or headwind. However, it's a white-knuckle experience and I'm completely content with going 70-75.
I'd like a little more oomph in the sand so maybe the VNT will help with that.

Back to your EGTs though. If you really think you hit 1400, you may have compromised some things. When Doug settles back in from returning (and thawing) from the Winter Romp and if he reads this, it was him that mentioned north of 1200 was the danger zone I think.

I just read the bit about the muff (no off color remarks Bill!).
Absolutely! The muff will definately heat things up on the highway. I forgot and left it on last year when on the highway and after 15 minutes it went from 170 to 200 in like 20 seconds. Good thing I was watching. Pulled right over and took it off.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old February 15th, 2015, 09:16 PM
aosias's Avatar
aosias
Status: Offline
Alexandra
1995 D90
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,348
Registry
Dare I ask what could have been compromised with high EGT temps. Can't say for sure the EGT temps were that high, the alarm is set to go off at that level. The coolant didn't climb past 200.

My ideal would be 50-55 mph on the climbs in the mountains. I don't do a ton of highway driving but would like to take it skiing.

What should I start looking into at this point to see more gains in power on the flats? I have no interest in 90 mph, my doors would rattle off. I have lots of wind noise from the split top doors so I think 75 mph is probably where i'd top out comfortably. It does sound like she's not running her best.

I do really like the madman. But I think I'm still going to add a center pod for some other gauges, including boost.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old February 15th, 2015, 09:33 PM
Manimal's Avatar
Manimal
Status: Offline
Carl Jonsson
1995 NAS D90 #219
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,236
Sound like it's not optimized. The VNT is a great upgrade but will do little to no difference on the highway. On a flat I can drive as fast as I would like but generally like to keep it around 65 for fuel economy. 75 wouldn't be a problem. I have two Digital Auber Gauges (EGT and Boost). The EGT has an alarm at 900 and I try to stay under 1000 at all times. I can easily climb up into the 1200's and beyond when towing my Zodiac but I avoid doing so.
__________________
Land Rovers. A loosely associated collection of parts, generally traveling in the same direction.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old February 15th, 2015, 09:34 PM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
Luckily, I have no direct experience with melting parts due to exceeding the EGT range, but I imagine that turbo bearings would be the first to melt, followed by valve seals and maybe some head distortion. However if you just hit the high limit alarm and shut her down from there I bet you're fine, but I'd set the alarm for 1200 just to give you more margin for safety. Maybe 1300 because you may end up running hotter at your elevation?

Just to be sure, I'd have somebody look it over and maybe do a compression check when you can.

Moving on and assuming there's no damage, have you done any tuning to the Injector Pump yet (I know you said stock) but just clarifying. You have the big intercooler, so it's possible that you may see some gains by simply dialing the star wheel or boost pin. (See one of the many threads on that).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
300tdi, tdi

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine sweet spot and highway RPMs cgalpin Defender Technical Discussions 32 December 30th, 2009 12:02 PM
Need Supplemental/Highway Vehicle gtg067i Misc. Chit-Chat 24 July 12th, 2007 08:07 PM
High Idle after Highway Cruise + stalling cellulararrest Defender Technical Discussions 3 October 11th, 2006 05:05 PM
Defender highway rollovers btate Misc. Chit-Chat 1 September 1st, 2006 05:14 AM
97' not downshifting when at highway speeds... P1CR Defender Technical Discussions 3 December 12th, 2003 09:26 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:21 PM.


Copyright