300tdi electrical - no headlights (power to relay) or some dash warning lights - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old April 8th, 2012, 09:36 PM
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Question 300tdi electrical - no headlights (power to relay) or some dash warning lights

Where to begin. 300tdi with standard wiring.

About a week ago, left my lights on (by accident) for an hour or two. Didn't realize it at the time, but pretty sure something got fried. Was doing some non-standard wiring and went to check everything else, realized the lights didn't work at all. Pulled the column headlight switch, thinking it was shot and tested the input wire (brown/blue)...nothing. So pulled the passenger seat fuse box, and checked the fuse and output wire (also brown/blue), had power going out no problem. Figured there was a break in the line or the line was fried or whatever, so ran a new 10awg wire from the passenger seat fuse box up to the column headlight switch. Confirmed power, hooked it up...and bingo, had parking light BUT no headlights. Following is the wiring diagrams I used and pics of the setup:

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Thinking it was the column headlight switch, I immediately checked that....BUT it is putting power out via the blue wire to the headlight relay inside the passenger compartment. Checked via testlight, at the relay on pin 87 and power IS coming in (per the below...tested both physically on the front of the relay plug-in as well on the back at the wire...all ok).

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Essentially from the below wiring diagram, my understanding is the relay has pin #87 as the column headlight switch power in (i.e. turn on the lights, power goes to the relay), #85 is the ignition power in (i.e. when the ignition is in the I or II position, there is power flowing to the headlight relay so the headlights can ONLY be turned on when the ignition is on), #86 is ground, and #30 is the output to the headlight harness in the front. So now that power was confirmed to #87 when activating the switch on the column, I moved to test #85 (the ignition wire power in). Nothing. No power coming to it at all, in any position of the ignition switch.

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Again working backwards from here, realized that if there is no ignition powered input the relay will never click "on" even if it gets feed power from the column switch. So worked backwards in the diagram once again and realized there is a Header Joint C285 upstream of this that seems to take the ignition power feed and work as a distribution block to take the ignition power turn-on wire and send that to the necessary "accessories" that require ignition power to run (ie stereo, gauges, healight relay, etc). Thinking that this MAY be the culprit...this is where things got ugly - entire dash teardown to get to the Header Joint:

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Pulled apart the Header Joint, almost hoping to find frayed wires, corrosion, or something...clean as a whistle. Now, I'm in the process of working through the Header Joint wiring diagram, but this is what I came up with:

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Looks like the Header Joint position 12 is the Headlamp Relay. Now, this is where other things come into play. I've never had the Difflock dash warning light and a couple of other non-essentially dash lights...which I'm assuming is either position 19 or 15 on here (probably 15, because I don't think my rear defrost works either). During the course of all this, I ALSO somehow lost my glowplug / battery / oil warning lights in the dash (were all working fine). But in theory could also be part of this Header Joint diagramed above.

It's also worth noting that I DO have power at the ignition switch behind the dash, tested and the input (constant hot / brown wire) works fine, outputs of the white and white/orange work fine (though only at position II on the turn of the key), and obviously the starter wire white/red does also obviously work just fine. I've also checked/replaced all fuses in the cabin as well as passenger seat box just to be safe, all seems to be working (but also keep in mind that in the case of the headlight relay power isn't even getting past this point so the headlight fuses are moot anyhow...but the under passenger seat fuse box for "Main Lights" with the 30amp fuse is functioning ok (both visual inspection as well as test light on each side).

So currently that leaves me On Shit Creek. No headlights, and lost some other crucial things along the way (like the warning lights), trying to figure out the Header Joint stuff, and literally 3 full days down the drain. Any wiring guru's out there?

Looking like Uwharrie is now certainly out of the question for next week .
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  #2  
Old April 8th, 2012, 09:49 PM
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Ps - case of beer to whoever figures this out .
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  #3  
Old April 9th, 2012, 05:22 AM
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Did you check the maxi fuses under the bonnet? i'm sure there's a 60a one for lights


edit: just saw you've done that. sorry.
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  #4  
Old April 9th, 2012, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel_jim View Post
Did you check the maxi fuses under the bonnet? i'm sure there's a 60a one for lights


edit: just saw you've done that. sorry.
Yeah, that was the first thing I checked...still good to go on the maxi fuse, and power on both sides.

Just tested bypassing the relay. If I jump the relay from the "column headlight switch input" (position #87 on the relay) to the "output to the headlights" (position #30 on the relay), works like a charm.

Issue is definitely the ignition turn-on wire into the headlight relay at position #85. So I'd think that if there is no power into that relay from the ignition, it's got to be somewhere upstream from there. The problem is where...I thought for sure it was going to be that Header Joint that I pulled apart, but appeared clean as a whistle.

Anyone know specifically where the 10awg white wire from the ignition switch goes from here? (shown below)
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  #5  
Old April 9th, 2012, 10:37 AM
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Are you measuring the voltage under a simulated load? Dirty connections can't carry the required current so while you are in there, best to clean those FASTON tabs. This would be a good area to look.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
Are you measuring the voltage under a simulated load? Dirty connections can't carry the required current so while you are in there, best to clean those FASTON tabs. This would be a good area to look.
On the ignition switch? I'm testlight-ing it in the ignition position, seems fine....but I'll clean to be safe. Pulled the female connectors off, all looks well.
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  #7  
Old April 9th, 2012, 10:56 AM
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All of them. It is the same principle as when a flashlight shines weak. You bang on it a few times and...... walla! It turned on because the batteries jarred around and cleaned the corrosion off the corroded tabs.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 10:57 AM
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So re-tah-ded...problem fixed (but wasn't the ignition switch). Too pissed at myself to come clean right now . At the very least, my dash needed a thorough cleaning inside and out, and time to Waxoyl the bulkhead holes (plus I needed to fix one of the dash vent arms that was bent). Crikey.
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  #9  
Old April 9th, 2012, 11:04 AM
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I will wager it was something you messed with when doing your initial "non standard" wiring work - correct?

Glad to hear it's fixed.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
I will wager it was something you messed with when doing your initial "non standard" wiring work - correct?

Glad to hear it's fixed.
No, nothing I did first time around...honestly didn't even touch the factory system on that.

Here's the scoop. On the fuse panel diagram (below), position 3/4/10/11 all show this diagram, but are actually blank spots (ie no female ends to hold a fuse in, so are essentially empty/blanks). On position 4, somehow there actually ARE female connectors there (unlike 3/10/11) but they actually were pushed back far for some reason so when you popped a fuse in there it acted like there were no connections - so based on the fuse panel diagram I didn't sweat it.

Went back and triple-checked everything from the back, noticed the prongs were pushed out, put them back in, plugged a 10amp fuse in...bingo...dash warning lights and headlights now work. So pissed, but it's always something simple.

SO....anything else I should do while I'm in there and have the damn dash pulled apart? RHD conversion ?
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  #11  
Old April 9th, 2012, 11:23 AM
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Glad you're cleaning that dash!!!!

Dammit, I was going to say check your fuses, too!!!
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Old April 9th, 2012, 11:52 AM
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Lucas strikes again! LOL!

Glad it was something simple, and didn't need a full loom strip down.
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  #13  
Old April 9th, 2012, 12:27 PM
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Amen...I sort of wasn't that pissed, you wouldn't believe the stuff I found under each layer of the dash...crazy stuff/dirt/thumbtacks/erasers/bugs/etc. Plus spraying some waxoyl in the bulkhead holes is probably worth it as well. But damn...
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Old April 9th, 2012, 06:02 PM
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Good news! Bring the case of beer to Uwharrie
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Old April 9th, 2012, 07:09 PM
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Since the case of beer isn't spoken for, can I have it?

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------ Follow up post added April 9th, 2012 07:11 PM ------

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Good news! Bring the case of beer to Uwharrie
That sounds like a plan...I'm in full reassembly mode, though today was cleaning that crap up, Waxoyl'ing, and starting to put things back together. Looking good though. What day you arriving?
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  #16  
Old April 9th, 2012, 07:17 PM
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I recommend Smart fuses. They light when blown. We all know what a pita it is to check fuses on a defender. It's neat to just pull the fuse cover and see the blown fuse gleaming back.
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  #17  
Old April 9th, 2012, 08:09 PM
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Electrics

Hey Jason,

Sounds like you got things sorted out, just as I was about to respond with results from testing my ignition switch.

I dont know where the heck Uwharrie is exactly in NC but if its close to Danville NC and your up there through next weekend, you got an invite to my paddock over at VIR. I'll be up there starting next Thursday, right through the weekend. Let me know if it works for you and I'll bring another rack of Corona's. I appreciate the help my friend.

Mark
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Old April 10th, 2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark McDonough View Post
Hey Jason,

Sounds like you got things sorted out, just as I was about to respond with results from testing my ignition switch.

I dont know where the heck Uwharrie is exactly in NC but if its close to Danville NC and your up there through next weekend, you got an invite to my paddock over at VIR. I'll be up there starting next Thursday, right through the weekend. Let me know if it works for you and I'll bring another rack of Corona's. I appreciate the help my friend.

Mark
Unfortunately I've got to head back to VA on Sunday...wife/kids/work/etc . But appreciate the invite, have always wanted to get to VIR actually - maybe next time!

I also spend a great deal of time up in Lake George NY, not TOO far from NH - perhaps we'll catch up in New England.
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