300tdi - defender vs. disco engine mount difference? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old December 7th, 2013, 07:16 PM
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300tdi - defender vs. disco engine mount difference?

Does anyone know if the engine mounts for a 300tdi are different from defender to the disco?
Not the rubber mounts, but the actual brackets that bolt to the engine.

I have the engine/trans on the cherry picker getting set to tack the mounts in, but I am an inch, ~25mm away from the frame on one side. Which side, well I guess depends which side you push it to! Seems to be passenger, but that might just be the way its sitting in there now.

I was supposed to get a defender kit, but everything was from a disco. And I've been fighting these little things constantly.

Maybe there isn't a difference. But something is off by an inch and I don't think it's my frame. The weld in mounts are right, so I don't think that's it either.

Thanks,
Pete
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  #2  
Old December 7th, 2013, 07:20 PM
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Are the mount holes slotted?
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  #3  
Old December 7th, 2013, 07:29 PM
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They are slotted, but I'm all the way to one side to get them on there. I could see if I was all the way to the other side on both sides, I would have my inch. But there would be much holding them on then, they'd be riding the edge pretty good.
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Old December 7th, 2013, 07:32 PM
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Not enough info

So it sounds like you have a 300TDI from a Disco that you want to install in a Defender, but the jig you have for metal motor mounts on the frame positions the 300TDI in the wrong position and you think the mounts coming off the engine are the wrong ones for your frame setup and want to know if the mounts coming off the engine are the same among the defender and disco. Is that right?

Felt like I made a few assumptions.

Dave Bobeck had some similar issues that he overcame.
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Old December 7th, 2013, 07:42 PM
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Yep pretty much!
The engine is a disco engine. The weld in mounts came with a jig to position them. And the jig looks accurate, except that only one side of the engine mounts touch the frame. But front to back they look like they are in the right spot. I'm not using the jig really. I was going to get it centered in the radiator shroud and then tack in the mounts and remove the engine. But my weld in mounts are only reaching one side of the frame.

I'm assuming the engine brackets for motor mounts are different from disco to defender and that is why I have that inch difference. In the picture the drivers side is touching, but you can see the passenger side is an inch away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
So it sounds like you have a 300TDI from a Disco that you want to install in a Defender, but the jig you have positions the 300TDI in the wrong spot and you think the mounts coming off the engine are wrong and want to know if they the same among the defender and disco. Is that right?

Felt like I made a few assumptions.

Dave Bobeck had some similar issues that he overcame.
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  #6  
Old December 7th, 2013, 07:48 PM
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I see the gap!

You're not the first to run into this problem.
You talk engine, but what mounts are you using for your transmission and are you lining up on the rear mounts and trying to lower down on the front mounts based on the front frame mount jig?

What gearbox are you using?

We have a defender 300TDI here and a 300TDI engine that came out of a Disco.
I'll look when it is light out tomorrow and try and answer your question.
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  #7  
Old December 7th, 2013, 07:53 PM
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I am using the 300tdi crossmember from Oliver that uses the NAS trans/transfer case mount holes.
I attached the frame engine mounts to the motor mounts. Then I was going to get the engine all aligned in the rad shroud and then tack them in. So I am working off the assumption that the crossmember is in the correct position and all I should have had to do was center in the rad shroud and then tack the mounts to the frame. But only one side of the engine has mounts that are touching the frame.

And I am doing this with a ZF auto as well. But that shouldn't really change anything.

Cool, thanks man!
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Old December 7th, 2013, 08:12 PM
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Yes your problem is from working backwards first, then forward.

So if you want to completely copy the stock 300TDI 90 - 110, you have to mount the engine in the 90 - 110 location and work backwards since you have the TDI ZF.

When building engine conversion components, I always start with the gearbox location and work forward. In that way the drive shafts fit, the manual shifter is in the correct spot, and hand brake lines up properly, then you make your engine mounts based on where the engine comes down off the fixed transmission location.

With the auto, the shifter is cabled so the location is more forgiving.
Does the transmission sit where the drive shafts need to be?
If so, you have the choice of making your own mounts to make what you have work or trying to copy the factory setup and waiting on other parts like different mounts coming off the engine say from a defender instead of a disco (if in fact they do differ).

One of these days, when I can get to it, am going to make front mounts for the 200TDI and 300TDI conversions that use the large hydraulic filled Mercedes motor mounts that pass almost no vibration to the chassis. Then when someone is in your situation, they buy this kit and bolt it in (for the 200TDI) and weld in a new set of frame mounts for the 300TDI. In both cases you use an electric fan mounted in the shroud so there is no mechanical fan line up issue. This makes more sense to you and others that have done a conversion than those who haven't. Imagine making everything needed to install a different engine, say a Mercedes where you need to slant the engine a little and build a custom adapter, oil pan, flywheel, mounts, and so on.

I have some adjustable glow plug controllers if you need one. Makes for and easy start up and works automatically. We use them on conversions - adjustable from 1 to 120 seconds.
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"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #9  
Old December 7th, 2013, 08:29 PM
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Not sure about the driveshafts yet, I'll look at those tomorrow. But that will give a good clue.

It just seems odd, the engine is sitting where the jig would have wanted to weld on mounts to be, front to back speaking, like spot on. So if I would have just used the jig and welded them on, I wouldn't have been able to get the motor to come down on them because there would be no holes for them. So it seems like they are in the right spot, it's just the engine side that is wrong.

But you're right. Find out if the engine side truely is different or just make some new mounts.

Thanks!
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  #10  
Old December 7th, 2013, 08:40 PM
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Again will check on the mounts tomorrow.
If the Disco engine is missing the mounts, we'll have to compare pictures.
Updated my last post a few minutes ago, so you might want to read it again.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #11  
Old December 7th, 2013, 10:05 PM
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to my knowledge there is no difference in the mounts. I have a defender 300 sitting on the floor in the shop with mounts on it and another in my 130. If Robert can't answer your question tomorrow I can take pictures. I pulled a 300/r380 combo from a customers truck and converted the truck to obd2 4.6 gems V8 with zf auto and NRP exhaust but retained the 1.4 tcase.
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Old December 8th, 2013, 12:10 PM
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Not sure if it helps much, but here are the engine mounts. They look pretty standard.
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Old December 8th, 2013, 12:11 PM
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Picture number 2
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Old December 8th, 2013, 12:26 PM
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where did you get your frame mounts ?
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Old December 8th, 2013, 12:27 PM
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From Oliver @ Overland Specialties
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Old December 8th, 2013, 12:46 PM
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I have never done what you picture as far as test fitting, I have just welded the mounts in and installed the engine. Are the mounts still loose in your pictures and fully extended in the slots ? Perhaps you could simply lengthen the slots ?
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Old December 8th, 2013, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
I have never done what you picture as far as test fitting, I have just welded the mounts in and installed the engine. Are the mounts still loose in your pictures and fully extended in the slots ? Perhaps you could simply lengthen the slots ?
In the picture the mounts are bolted to the engine and they are pushed out as far as possible. Interesting though there is basically no adjustment allowed. I used a die grinder to get them on anyways, the holes were a little tight. So making the hole larger is probably a possibility, they would just be a little close to the edge if moved them both a 1/2 inch.
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  #18  
Old December 9th, 2013, 06:01 AM
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There is no difference in the mounts. Oliver probably just gave you a little room to get a good weld. If you look at a motor installed even from the factory the mounts look like they were installed too far away from the motor before it is all bolted in.

I've installed a shitpile of these and use the same frame mount jig regardless of what it came out of or what it is going in.

The holes for the trans mount are already there so you really can't go wrong if you start there and work forward. It is very hard to establish correct height by hanging the motor as the mounts are pretty soft. most of the installs that I have seen done this way have been at the shop to have the motor moved up after it hits the fan shroud when it all settles in..
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Old December 9th, 2013, 07:50 AM
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are you using the correct brackets between the 300tdi crossmember and the transfer case?

Both sides are different when you go NAS to Tdi or early 4cyl to Tdi.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncoduecer View Post
I am using the 300tdi crossmember from Oliver that uses the NAS trans/transfer case mount holes.
I attached the frame engine mounts to the motor mounts. Then I was going to get the engine all aligned in the rad shroud and then tack them in. So I am working off the assumption that the crossmember is in the correct position and all I should have had to do was center in the rad shroud and then tack the mounts to the frame. But only one side of the engine has mounts that are touching the frame.

And I am doing this with a ZF auto as well. But that shouldn't really change anything.

Cool, thanks man!
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  #20  
Old December 9th, 2013, 07:52 AM
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I compared yesterday and as Matt and Uncle Douglas state are the same among the 110 and Disco. At least they appear to be the same with a quick check in the heavy rain that was pouring down in VA Sunday.
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"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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