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300tdi - defender vs. disco engine mount difference?

11K views 45 replies 10 participants last post by  Broncoduecer 
#1 ·
Does anyone know if the engine mounts for a 300tdi are different from defender to the disco?
Not the rubber mounts, but the actual brackets that bolt to the engine.

I have the engine/trans on the cherry picker getting set to tack the mounts in, but I am an inch, ~25mm away from the frame on one side. Which side, well I guess depends which side you push it to! Seems to be passenger, but that might just be the way its sitting in there now.

I was supposed to get a defender kit, but everything was from a disco. And I've been fighting these little things constantly.

Maybe there isn't a difference. But something is off by an inch and I don't think it's my frame. The weld in mounts are right, so I don't think that's it either.

Thanks,
Pete
 
#4 · (Edited)
Not enough info

So it sounds like you have a 300TDI from a Disco that you want to install in a Defender, but the jig you have for metal motor mounts on the frame positions the 300TDI in the wrong position and you think the mounts coming off the engine are the wrong ones for your frame setup and want to know if the mounts coming off the engine are the same among the defender and disco. Is that right?

Felt like I made a few assumptions.

Dave Bobeck had some similar issues that he overcame.
 
#5 ·
Yep pretty much!
The engine is a disco engine. The weld in mounts came with a jig to position them. And the jig looks accurate, except that only one side of the engine mounts touch the frame. But front to back they look like they are in the right spot. I'm not using the jig really. I was going to get it centered in the radiator shroud and then tack in the mounts and remove the engine. But my weld in mounts are only reaching one side of the frame.

I'm assuming the engine brackets for motor mounts are different from disco to defender and that is why I have that inch difference. In the picture the drivers side is touching, but you can see the passenger side is an inch away.

So it sounds like you have a 300TDI from a Disco that you want to install in a Defender, but the jig you have positions the 300TDI in the wrong spot and you think the mounts coming off the engine are wrong and want to know if they the same among the defender and disco. Is that right?

Felt like I made a few assumptions.

Dave Bobeck had some similar issues that he overcame.
 

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#6 · (Edited)
I see the gap!

You're not the first to run into this problem.
You talk engine, but what mounts are you using for your transmission and are you lining up on the rear mounts and trying to lower down on the front mounts based on the front frame mount jig?

What gearbox are you using?

We have a defender 300TDI here and a 300TDI engine that came out of a Disco.
I'll look when it is light out tomorrow and try and answer your question.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I am using the 300tdi crossmember from Oliver that uses the NAS trans/transfer case mount holes.
I attached the frame engine mounts to the motor mounts. Then I was going to get the engine all aligned in the rad shroud and then tack them in. So I am working off the assumption that the crossmember is in the correct position and all I should have had to do was center in the rad shroud and then tack the mounts to the frame. But only one side of the engine has mounts that are touching the frame.

And I am doing this with a ZF auto as well. But that shouldn't really change anything.

Cool, thanks man!
 
#19 ·
are you using the correct brackets between the 300tdi crossmember and the transfer case?

Both sides are different when you go NAS to Tdi or early 4cyl to Tdi.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Yes your problem is from working backwards first, then forward.

So if you want to completely copy the stock 300TDI 90 - 110, you have to mount the engine in the 90 - 110 location and work backwards since you have the TDI ZF.

When building engine conversion components, I always start with the gearbox location and work forward. In that way the drive shafts fit, the manual shifter is in the correct spot, and hand brake lines up properly, then you make your engine mounts based on where the engine comes down off the fixed transmission location.

With the auto, the shifter is cabled so the location is more forgiving.
Does the transmission sit where the drive shafts need to be?
If so, you have the choice of making your own mounts to make what you have work or trying to copy the factory setup and waiting on other parts like different mounts coming off the engine say from a defender instead of a disco (if in fact they do differ).

One of these days, when I can get to it, am going to make front mounts for the 200TDI and 300TDI conversions that use the large hydraulic filled Mercedes motor mounts that pass almost no vibration to the chassis. Then when someone is in your situation, they buy this kit and bolt it in (for the 200TDI) and weld in a new set of frame mounts for the 300TDI. In both cases you use an electric fan mounted in the shroud so there is no mechanical fan line up issue. This makes more sense to you and others that have done a conversion than those who haven't. Imagine making everything needed to install a different engine, say a Mercedes where you need to slant the engine a little and build a custom adapter, oil pan, flywheel, mounts, and so on.

I have some adjustable glow plug controllers if you need one. Makes for and easy start up and works automatically. We use them on conversions - adjustable from 1 to 120 seconds.
 
#9 ·
Not sure about the driveshafts yet, I'll look at those tomorrow. But that will give a good clue.

It just seems odd, the engine is sitting where the jig would have wanted to weld on mounts to be, front to back speaking, like spot on. So if I would have just used the jig and welded them on, I wouldn't have been able to get the motor to come down on them because there would be no holes for them. So it seems like they are in the right spot, it's just the engine side that is wrong.

But you're right. Find out if the engine side truely is different or just make some new mounts.

Thanks!
 
#10 ·
Again will check on the mounts tomorrow.
If the Disco engine is missing the mounts, we'll have to compare pictures.
Updated my last post a few minutes ago, so you might want to read it again.
 
#11 · (Edited)
to my knowledge there is no difference in the mounts. I have a defender 300 sitting on the floor in the shop with mounts on it and another in my 130. If Robert can't answer your question tomorrow I can take pictures. I pulled a 300/r380 combo from a customers truck and converted the truck to obd2 4.6 gems V8 with zf auto and NRP exhaust but retained the 1.4 tcase.
 
#17 ·
In the picture the mounts are bolted to the engine and they are pushed out as far as possible. Interesting though there is basically no adjustment allowed. I used a die grinder to get them on anyways, the holes were a little tight. So making the hole larger is probably a possibility, they would just be a little close to the edge if moved them both a 1/2 inch.
 
#18 ·
There is no difference in the mounts. Oliver probably just gave you a little room to get a good weld. If you look at a motor installed even from the factory the mounts look like they were installed too far away from the motor before it is all bolted in.

I've installed a shitpile of these and use the same frame mount jig regardless of what it came out of or what it is going in.

The holes for the trans mount are already there so you really can't go wrong if you start there and work forward. It is very hard to establish correct height by hanging the motor as the mounts are pretty soft. most of the installs that I have seen done this way have been at the shop to have the motor moved up after it hits the fan shroud when it all settles in..
 
#20 ·
I compared yesterday and as Matt and Uncle Douglas state are the same among the 110 and Disco. At least they appear to be the same with a quick check in the heavy rain that was pouring down in VA Sunday.
 
#22 ·
Mine is a '97 converted to 300Tdi w/Zf auto & stock (year) "T" case. I too agree with building from the drive-line forward as all mine lined up well with the factory template engine mount placement. The thing to check before welding the mounts to the frame is the elevation of the engine fan in the radiator cowl. Make sure it's centered (elevation) before you attach the mounts to the frame. I ended up welding mine about 1/2 " low because the kit did not show an elevation for the mounts. Basically I'd say that the bottom of the mounts (those pointed things) need to be welded onto the frame so those tips are fully welded on the frame. On mine, which is wrong, those tips hang below the frame by about 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch. My fan doesn't rub the bottom of the cowl and never has, but it would be better if it was a little higher.
 
#24 · (Edited)
As a person has only installed 1 Tdi kit, I concede my in-experience. So what is the reason for my engine fan not being centered vertically in the cowl if not the welding of the engine mounts? What else could I point to as the cause ?

Mine was a complete re-power LR kit for a defender 110, judging from the exhaust kit that came with it. The radiator / intercooler came as a 'drop-in-unit".

Maybe the thing to do is, on level ground, put a magnetic level on the bottom of the oil pan, level it and weld mounts to frame?
 
#25 ·
Engines often sit tilted, slanted, and while some sit completely level, others do not... good thought though.
 
#26 ·
Don't know what to say. Im doing a Disco swap right now and the mounts went in as per usual with the same old jig…….and I really don't get very anal about placement, using the standard Land Rover principal of anything close (1/4" tolerance) and its all good. The fan is not centered in the fan shroud height, being perhaps closer to the top by 1/2 ". My '95 RRC is the same way. My 89 RRC the motor sits much closer to the bottom of the opening…..Im not sure it always did, but the mounts are like 8yrs old.
If you've ever driven one of these without the bonnet in place you'll be alarmed at the amount the motor moves, especially down, even when road driving.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Matt:
Having built engine conversions for 25+ years, I can agree with you.
0.25" is very close when compared to some of the series frames having come across, especially new replacements.

One of the fitting steps with our Mercedes OM617 kits in the Series install is to rotate one of the mounts to reposition it and drill a new hole if required. In order to get an average for motor mount location, conducted a trial fitting to 4 different series vehicles. Thought I had it right when the first kit sold and it fit fine. Then the second was a new galvanized frame that required re-drilling one of the mount holes. You know you're dealing with the love of Land Rovers when you have to build that sort of adjustment into a kit.

As typed above... some day will have to make some TDI conversion mounts using the big hydraulic filled Mercedes mounts which flex less and absorb more vibration.

Peter:
Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Dennis:
You still running with the V8 fuel filter?
 
#34 ·
My 200 knocked a filling loose so I would be down for a pair
I think the only way the rover mounts could pass more vibration would be if they used all metal instead of the hard hard rubber. Some of the mounts only have small portions of rubber in between metal plates... Right up there with the IIA seats that are close to sitting on bags of quickcrete.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Wish life were so simple.

Well there's shop time and then there's other time when you're not even in the same city as the shop, but have the opportunity to type here... believe me, I spend every possible moment in the shop. Was out there assembling Mercedes kits until half past midnight last night.
 
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#32 ·
Robert, Yes I still have the inline V8 filter in place on the Tdi. Only had to change it once in the last 140K+ miles, I still have the inline Tdi diesel filter in place too. In this part of the west, we just don't have a water in fuel situation that you do in higher humidity climates. I also use the Power Service (silver bottle) faithfully in my fuel (4oz./fill).

You guys mention the hydraulic mounts for the MB engine to be used in place of ones on our Tdi. Another source of this type of mount is from the 2005-06 Jeep Liberty with the CRD diesel engine made by VM & engineered by MB. That Jeep part number is (L&R are the same) 52129011AC. Engine weight is probably about the same for the Tdi & the CRD.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Dennis:
Thanks for the Liberty info.
Glad you are not having the fuel contamination issues.
Dumped a sedimentator that was full to the top with water.
When driven the vehicle ran fine as long as the petal was not pressed over 3/8".
More than that and the fuel picked up water and the engine RPM would drop with a big puff of white exhaust.

Guy thought he needed a new IP.
Drove it, drained the sedimentator in an old metal coffee can.
Drove it again and all was well.

He had never drained his sedimenter and didn't really know it was there until I showed him.
 
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