300tdi - defender vs. disco engine mount difference? - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old December 9th, 2013, 12:32 PM
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Thanks guys for all the replies.

Thanks Robert for checking that out in the rain!

Thanks Matt for the info, from the sounds of it they are all the same. I look more into making the slot longer on the mounts. I'll probably just weld them in using the jig, I never really thought about them settling like that. Good call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post
are you using the correct brackets between the 300tdi crossmember and the transfer case?

Both sides are different when you go NAS to Tdi or early 4cyl to Tdi.
Yea I'm pretty sure, I ditched the NAS stuff and used these guys:
ANR3225 Left
ANR2898 Right
Rubber Mounts
ANR3200 Right
ANR3201 Left
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  #22  
Old December 9th, 2013, 05:36 PM
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Mine is a '97 converted to 300Tdi w/Zf auto & stock (year) "T" case. I too agree with building from the drive-line forward as all mine lined up well with the factory template engine mount placement. The thing to check before welding the mounts to the frame is the elevation of the engine fan in the radiator cowl. Make sure it's centered (elevation) before you attach the mounts to the frame. I ended up welding mine about 1/2 " low because the kit did not show an elevation for the mounts. Basically I'd say that the bottom of the mounts (those pointed things) need to be welded onto the frame so those tips are fully welded on the frame. On mine, which is wrong, those tips hang below the frame by about 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch. My fan doesn't rub the bottom of the cowl and never has, but it would be better if it was a little higher.
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  #23  
Old December 9th, 2013, 08:14 PM
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The "pointed things" on the frame mounts on a new factory frame will hang below by about 1/2 inch or so.
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  #24  
Old December 9th, 2013, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junkyddog11 View Post
The "pointed things" on the frame mounts on a new factory frame will hang below by about 1/2 inch or so.
As a person has only installed 1 Tdi kit, I concede my in-experience. So what is the reason for my engine fan not being centered vertically in the cowl if not the welding of the engine mounts? What else could I point to as the cause ?

Mine was a complete re-power LR kit for a defender 110, judging from the exhaust kit that came with it. The radiator / intercooler came as a 'drop-in-unit".

Maybe the thing to do is, on level ground, put a magnetic level on the bottom of the oil pan, level it and weld mounts to frame?
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  #25  
Old December 10th, 2013, 12:05 AM
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Engines often sit tilted, slanted, and while some sit completely level, others do not... good thought though.
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  #26  
Old December 10th, 2013, 05:02 AM
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Don't know what to say. Im doing a Disco swap right now and the mounts went in as per usual with the same old jig…….and I really don't get very anal about placement, using the standard Land Rover principal of anything close (1/4" tolerance) and its all good. The fan is not centered in the fan shroud height, being perhaps closer to the top by 1/2 ". My '95 RRC is the same way. My 89 RRC the motor sits much closer to the bottom of the opening…..Im not sure it always did, but the mounts are like 8yrs old.
If you've ever driven one of these without the bonnet in place you'll be alarmed at the amount the motor moves, especially down, even when road driving.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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  #27  
Old December 10th, 2013, 08:13 AM
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Matt:
Having built engine conversions for 25+ years, I can agree with you.
0.25" is very close when compared to some of the series frames having come across, especially new replacements.

One of the fitting steps with our Mercedes OM617 kits in the Series install is to rotate one of the mounts to reposition it and drill a new hole if required. In order to get an average for motor mount location, conducted a trial fitting to 4 different series vehicles. Thought I had it right when the first kit sold and it fit fine. Then the second was a new galvanized frame that required re-drilling one of the mount holes. You know you're dealing with the love of Land Rovers when you have to build that sort of adjustment into a kit.

As typed above... some day will have to make some TDI conversion mounts using the big hydraulic filled Mercedes mounts which flex less and absorb more vibration.

Peter:
Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Dennis:
You still running with the V8 fuel filter?
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #28  
Old December 10th, 2013, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Matt:
As typed above... some day will have to make some TDI conversion mounts using the big hydraulic filled Mercedes mounts which flex less and absorb more vibration.
Can you just do that now?
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  #29  
Old December 10th, 2013, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtomchik View Post
Can you just do that now?
Wish I had the time am so backed up with a sload of work it will be next winter at the earliest before this happens, perhaps even later.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #30  
Old December 10th, 2013, 10:37 AM
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Just take a break from this site for a few weeks and use the extra time to design the mounts

My 200 knocked a filling loose so I would be down for a pair
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  #31  
Old December 10th, 2013, 10:44 AM
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Wish life were so simple.

Well there's shop time and then there's other time when you're not even in the same city as the shop, but have the opportunity to type here... believe me, I spend every possible moment in the shop. Was out there assembling Mercedes kits until half past midnight last night.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #32  
Old December 10th, 2013, 12:32 PM
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Robert, Yes I still have the inline V8 filter in place on the Tdi. Only had to change it once in the last 140K+ miles, I still have the inline Tdi diesel filter in place too. In this part of the west, we just don't have a water in fuel situation that you do in higher humidity climates. I also use the Power Service (silver bottle) faithfully in my fuel (4oz./fill).

You guys mention the hydraulic mounts for the MB engine to be used in place of ones on our Tdi. Another source of this type of mount is from the 2005-06 Jeep Liberty with the CRD diesel engine made by VM & engineered by MB. That Jeep part number is (L&R are the same) 52129011AC. Engine weight is probably about the same for the Tdi & the CRD.
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  #33  
Old December 10th, 2013, 01:20 PM
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Dennis:
Thanks for the Liberty info.
Glad you are not having the fuel contamination issues.
Dumped a sedimentator that was full to the top with water.
When driven the vehicle ran fine as long as the petal was not pressed over 3/8".
More than that and the fuel picked up water and the engine RPM would drop with a big puff of white exhaust.

Guy thought he needed a new IP.
Drove it, drained the sedimentator in an old metal coffee can.
Drove it again and all was well.

He had never drained his sedimenter and didn't really know it was there until I showed him.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #34  
Old December 10th, 2013, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
My 200 knocked a filling loose so I would be down for a pair
I think the only way the rover mounts could pass more vibration would be if they used all metal instead of the hard hard rubber. Some of the mounts only have small portions of rubber in between metal plates... Right up there with the IIA seats that are close to sitting on bags of quickcrete.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #35  
Old December 10th, 2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
I think the only way the rover mounts could pass more vibration would be if they used all metal instead of the hard hard rubber. Some of the mounts only have small portions of rubber in between metal plates... Right up there with the IIA seats that are close to sitting on bags of quickcrete.
My word...whatever do you mean
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...t+motor+mounts

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...6&d=1353870339
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...7&d=1353870349
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  #36  
Old December 10th, 2013, 04:01 PM
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With a 200 or 300 TDI the engine mounts transfer a sload of vibrations compared to the Mercedes hydraulic filled mounts. Dave Lucas says he lost a filling.

Thanks again for the pictures of the cool tail gate sanky.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #37  
Old December 10th, 2013, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
With a 200 or 300 TDI the engine mounts transfer a sload of vibrations compared to the Mercedes hydraulic filled mounts. Dave Lucas says he lost a filling.

Thanks again for the pictures of the cool tail gate sanky.
I was just kidding about the mounts...I'm one of the few that runs solid mounts (albeit on a V8). But yes, with Tdi a solid mount would shake my kidneys out!

I think you'd have a decent market for the hydraulic mounts, I know I'd be in for a pair to put in my diesel...
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  #38  
Old December 11th, 2013, 05:20 AM
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Robt. WTF are you using for mounts. The genuine 300tdi mounts are soft as shit. Some of the aftermarket mountings seen to be made of plastic in comparison. If the motor moved any more it would hit the fan shroud, the exhaust would hit all kinds of things and you'd need longer hoses (just kiddin about the hoses). Not trying to divert attention from your MB mount thoughts and Id agree that the 200 mounts are seriously odd and a pain in the arse but most of the Rover diesels I have messed with that seemed vibration prone had much more to do with the timing being off a bit.
A well tuned 300tdi in an RRC is smooth like butter. Im pretty sure that the Rover engineers didn't settle for tractor like qualities in the flagship.

I went wheeling with a Jeep Liberty this summer. It went pretty well other than the motor mounts breaking.

------ Follow up post added December 11th, 2013 05:24 AM ------

…………..even the old 2.5 na can be made to run fairly smoothly on is fairly solid mountings, but then again that is a tractor motor in a glorified piece of farm equipment and Id be disappointed to feel completely detached when running it.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

"Dedicated to the resurrection of junk through engineering?"
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  #39  
Old December 11th, 2013, 05:37 AM
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…..and (off subject almost) leaving a EFI V8 fuel filter in line will kill the tdi lift pump (if its a rover motor)

That little filter was designed to have fuel pushed through it by a high(isn) pressure pump close by. Its not designed for diesel and doesn't flow diesel very well for very long. The Tdi lift pump will pull fuel through it but at a cost. Not making this up to sound smart, seen it multiple times. Has about the same effect as leaving the EFI pump in the tank and pulling the fuel through it. That works too, but will also kill the pump…….only seen that trick once.
I have had quite a few diesel installs (by others) that have needed some corrective work, or conversions that are about almost done but can't get over a few obstacles….like making it run right.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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  #40  
Old December 13th, 2013, 04:41 PM
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Inside frame width on my 90 appears to be 63.5 cm. Anyone else have a similar number?
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