300TDi Boost Gauge sender in manifold - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old June 14th, 2014, 08:23 PM
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300TDi Boost Gauge sender in manifold

Search yielded many pages of hits for "boost gauge sender manifold" and though some were a good read, I'm still trying to settle on a location of the boost gauge sender.

I want to go into the back of the intake manifold plenum but would rather not remove the intake (just one more thing to order gaskets for), but looking around back there I find that there is a threaded plug already there (see picture). Anyone know what this is for? Is it factory, or has somebody already threaded a sender unit here in the past?
If this can be used as a sender unit location, then great! But it looks like a really course thread and wondered what type of connection would look the cleanest.

Otherwise, would it be "bush league" to insert a "T" fitting in the hard plastic tubing running from the turbo to the IP? That is manifold pressure also, correct?

This and installing the EGT sender/gauge is the first step before I install the Allisport full length IC and timing belt renew next weekend. I want a "baseline" boost and EGT reading before any modifications.
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  #2  
Old June 14th, 2014, 08:42 PM
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Boost gauges don't use senders. They use tubing and are often 100% mechanical. Yes that is a factory threaded plug and is the optimal place to pull your boost signal from. Use a "t" and use the other side of the t for the waste gate signal instead of where the waste gate signal currently comes from which is @ the turbo.
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Old June 14th, 2014, 08:50 PM
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Thanks Doug.
Yeah, I was still thinking of EGT stuff when I said "sending unit"
Any idea what thread size that plug is? Still wondering what it's original intent/use was. I don't have a thread gauge and I'd hate to experiment and strip that soft aluminum.

I ended up getting a universal 6' hose kit for the boost gauge and it's like 1/8" compression fitting brass end. I'll have to find a clean way to connect to whatever "T" I end up getting.

Why is the manifold a better location for the waste gate signal? I'm guessing it's more accurate as to what's actually getting fed to the engine, but you'd think they'd have plugged into the manifold in the first place, not the turbo.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 08:01 AM
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So I took the plug/bolt out and tried to match it to a few dies and the largest die I have is M12x1.75 and it's slightly bigger than that.
The threads are definitely course but I'm guessing is M13x1.75.
Going to run down to the local specialty shop that makes hydraulic fitting/hoses tomorrow and see if the have a proper thread fitting that will accept the tube.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 08:25 AM
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waste gate signal from the manifold opens the gate based on true manifold pressure-ie what is going into the engine as opposed to what pressure is being made @ the turbo. Taking the signal from the turbo results in the gate opening early and doesn't account for resistance in flow or any drop in pressure before reaching the manifold. IE same reason thats the best place to take your boost gauge reading from-its the true manifold pressure.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
waste gate signal from the manifold opens the gate based on true manifold pressure-ie what is going into the engine as opposed to what pressure is being made @ the turbo. Taking the signal from the turbo results in the gate opening early and doesn't account for resistance in flow or any drop in pressure before reaching the manifold. IE same reason thats the best place to take your boost gauge reading from-its the true manifold pressure.
Makes complete sense.
"T" fitting off rear: one side to wastegate, other to gauge. Plug the boost line out of the turbo.
Hoping I can find the right fitting for that hole so I don't have to remove manifold and tap another.
Back to the question though, what is that threaded hole for?
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Old June 15th, 2014, 09:47 PM
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The threaded hole in the manifold is for a boost sensor. You can order metric threaded fittings from the UK. I did. I posted about the thread sizing in another boost thread.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 10:00 PM
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This isn't the t you are looking for, but if you want to adapt it to npt this kit is handy.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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  #9  
Old June 16th, 2014, 12:28 AM
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I've looked into this. My plan was to find a T fitting and have it installed into the threaded manifold plug by a machine shop. I just haven't gotten around to finding a good T fitting. Presumably, I need one with two barbed connections on the top of the T and one threaded connection on the bottom.

Let me know if you find a good fitting for this.
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Old June 16th, 2014, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Hoping I can find the right fitting for that hole so I don't have to remove manifold and tap another.
Suggest drilling and tapping the plug you have for npt.
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Old June 16th, 2014, 09:52 AM
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The size for the manifold is M12/1.5 Pitch. Here's where I got mine. Cost me 1.95.
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Old June 16th, 2014, 01:03 PM
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THanks Carl & Doug.
Yes, I've just sorted out the fittings and hardware.
there's a really good machine shop that specialized in hydraulic fittings and custom lines that usually has these obscure fittings. Sure enough. (they alsy drilled and tapped my EGT blanking plate to receive the bung).

So, what I've got is a non-NPT 12x1.5 w/ rubber o-ring into manifold. Fitting converts to 1/4NPT at other end and from there it's easy-peasy. T fitting into either barb or compression fitting for 1/4" hard tubing.

The tubing that came with the VDO boost gauge is 1/8" and looks pretty flimsy. The ferrul on the back of the VDO gauge will accept a 1/4 tube w/ compression fitting, so I've got 6' of plastic hose (used for truck air brakes) and will do compression fitting on both ends of that or maybe heat up the end on the manifold side so it fits over a 1/4" barb, then crimp with a SS collar.

The wastegate signal tubing I'll just try to use what's already there just re-route.

I wish I could report that it was as cheap as Carl said, but I have about $30 worth of fittings (some of which will probably be returned if I don't use them).

I'll post up pictures later when i've got my arms around the project.
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Old June 16th, 2014, 01:23 PM
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dang. I just redid mine. The 2.8 manifold also has a tap in the back just like yours, although a bit smaller thread. I get all my metric fittings here. I installed a banjo T for boost signal, and used 5mm silicone line to the gauge, IP and wastegate. rubber will degrade pretty quick under the heat.
https://www.belmetric.com/metric-ban...oief4v9fjrotq7
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Old June 16th, 2014, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
dang. I just redid mine. The 2.8 manifold also has a tap in the back just like yours, although a bit smaller thread. I get all my metric fittings here. I installed a banjo T for boost signal, and used 5mm silicone line to the gauge, IP and wastegate. rubber will degrade pretty quick under the heat.
https://www.belmetric.com/metric-ban...oief4v9fjrotq7
Banjo fitting would look trick for sure.
Good suggestion on the rubber degrading (do you mean the o-ring on the bolt or the line itself?). I could simply get a copper crush-washer (similar to what's on the bolt that came out).
If you mean the signal line, then I'm not worried about the boost signal because that gets out of harm's way (heat) immediately and basically is going straight off the back of the manifold right to the firewall. The wastegate signal is a different story though and silicone would be a good upgrade.

BTW Mark, when is your next Boston/Norwell trip?
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Old June 16th, 2014, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Banjo fitting would look trick for sure.
Good suggestion on the rubber degrading (do you mean the o-ring on the bolt or the line itself?). I could simply get a copper crush-washer (similar to what's on the bolt that came out).
If you mean the signal line, then I'm not worried about the boost signal because that gets out of harm's way (heat) immediately and basically is going straight off the back of the manifold right to the firewall. The wastegate signal is a different story though and silicone would be a good upgrade.

BTW Mark, when is your next Boston/Norwell trip?
I used copper washers on my banjo fitting so no o-ring involved. I was referring to signal line.

As for Boston, not sure but I"ll let you know as soon as I know! Meet up for beers again for sure. But bring your truck this time.
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Old June 16th, 2014, 08:45 PM
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Thanks for the heads up on this. Engine is out so I have a lot more space to mess around than usual.

Anyway, I always order all the plumbing stuff for the race car from Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies so in case anyone wants an easy state side online solution I found everything I needed....the total bill for the T fitting and adapters was about $35 bucks. Tossed around the option of going to AN fittings but decided it probably wasn't worth the effort.
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Old June 16th, 2014, 09:16 PM
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Posting from iPhone, so only one picture at a time.
Here is what's going on at the back of the manifold now....
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Old June 16th, 2014, 09:17 PM
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....installed on the back of manifold.....
Picture is upside down, sorry
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Old June 16th, 2014, 09:20 PM
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Line in through bulkhead....along with EGT line input
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Old June 16th, 2014, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Line in through bulkhead....along with EGT line input
Nice...but don't most of the dash cluster wires run through the two (three?) little plugs behind the dash?
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