300TDi aftermarket fuel filter/water separator? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 4th, 2015, 10:25 PM
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300TDi aftermarket fuel filter/water separator?

Recent conversion of Disco 1 to 300Tdi from V8, still has the V8 fuel filter in place and nothing else . . .

Should I get an integrated water separator/fuel filter like the Wix 33213 (with 24309 mount)? or the Dahl 65, which has a see-through bowl? Both of these run on the non pressurized side of the lift pump, which seems like a good idea, since it'll keep both water and particles from reaching the lift pump--is there a reason I should instead try to mimic the stock Tdi setup with the sedimenter before the lift pump and the filter between it and the injector pump?

If I get one of these one-stop filter/separators, where should I mount it? Firewall/fender (not sure which will have enough room, but reckon one of them will) or back where the V8 fuel filter was/inside the frame rail where the LR sedimenter goes?

Thanks in advance,
Bill
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  #2  
Old August 4th, 2015, 10:38 PM
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Get a sedimentor from Mr. Davis, http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...8-a-59085.html for between the tank and lift pump.

Install an aftermarket 2 micron filter between the lift pump and injection pump. Stanadyne's FM-100 fits the stock location. Racor also do nice units.
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Old August 5th, 2015, 07:39 AM
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Thanks--actually have the thread on those water separators open already and was thinking I would get one if folks recommended a two-stage approach.

I posted the wrong Wix #--it's 33123, and is an integrated filter and water separator--it only filters to 12 microns, though, which maybe isn't enough. . .

What's the virtue of a two-stage sedimentation/filtration process vice using something like the Dahl 65 (http://www.baldwinfilter.com/Literat...l/form4060.pdf) (for which one can get 2 micron elements)? If I can mount, plumb, and maintain just one filter/separator is there a reason to break the process into stages?

Bill
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Old August 5th, 2015, 07:49 AM
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I've gone with Red90's suggestion on the Stanadyne setup and can't be happier.
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Old August 5th, 2015, 08:06 AM
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whatever you do, do it soon. the reason for the 3 micron filter is it is easy to ruin diesel injectors with particulate. a gasoline filter will do nothing for you on a diesel. Nothing
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Old August 5th, 2015, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
whatever you do, do it soon. the reason for the 3 micron filter is it is easy to ruin diesel injectors with particulate. a gasoline filter will do nothing for you on a diesel. Nothing
It will do something... reduce the flow rate of diesel and eventually fuel starve the engine.
Tyler drove this 93 RR Classic Turbo diesel away before it was finished and I went on to something else.
A few weeks later he started staling out with barely any fuel delivery.
I removed the gasoline filter and he was good to go.
The media on some brands is NOT diesel compatible.
In other words as it gets well saturated in diesel the media expands and chokes off fuel flow.
One batch of bad fuel or good fuel with a little water and your engine will run poorly or not at all.
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Old August 5th, 2015, 01:00 PM
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Rob, will do--don't plan on starting the engine again til I get this sorted.

------ Follow up post added August 5th, 2015 11:02 AM ------

Red90/Boston Andy, would Stanadyne's 42533 version of the fm100 fit the bill, or do I not need the bowl at all if I run a sedimentary first?
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Old August 5th, 2015, 01:44 PM
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You don't "need" the clear bowl. The filters catch water by themselves. But it can't hurt. The bowl does not help capture water, it just makes it visible.

Personally, I've never found water in fuel, and unless you are in Africa, it would be crazy rare.

I use the FM100 with the 6" - 2 micron filter. The 42533 is only the 2.8" filter. I would go with the 4.3" at least. Just check space wherever you are putting it.

http://thedieselstore.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=fm100
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Old August 5th, 2015, 02:03 PM
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This is the bowl: Stanadyne KIT,FM100 SEE THRU B It simply replaces the drain valve on the filter making water visible.
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  #10  
Old August 5th, 2015, 02:42 PM
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While it might not be technically correct, you can do what I did and put both the filter and the RDavis setup on the bulkhead, rather than the annoying-to-service area on the chassis.

They fit next to each other if you move the washer reservoir a few inches to the left
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Old August 5th, 2015, 03:03 PM
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I have the same Stanadyne set up as John and I am very happy with it.
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Old August 5th, 2015, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
You don't "need" the clear bowl. The filters catch water by themselves. But it can't hurt. The bowl does not help capture water, it just makes it visible.

Personally, I've never found water in fuel, and unless you are in Africa, it would be crazy rare.

I use the FM100 with the 6" - 2 micron filter. The 42533 is only the 2.8" filter. I would go with the 4.3" at least. Just check space wherever you are putting it.

Search results for: 'fm100'
Here in NC, those of us that have diesel prefilter/seperators can see water starting to collect in a couple tanks. probably because we have more temperature change leading to condensation in the tank, or maybe our fuel/stations suck.
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Old August 5th, 2015, 07:00 PM
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I always install a 12V fuel pump between the sedimenter, but before the lift pump to make the system self priming by simply turning on the key.
Cranking the IP dry after a filter change or sedimenter drain until fuel gets sucked up to the IP is very very very bad.
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Old August 5th, 2015, 10:35 PM
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Thanks, everyone, for the wealth of responses.

I'm calling thedieselstore tomorrow to order the Stanadyne filter (6", 2 micron) and header assembly with 1/4" NPT ports.

Mr. Davis, do you have any more of the bargain sedimenters available?


and a few general questions:



1) what is this thing in the location where my final filter belongs? My cursory research indicates it might have something to do with the electric fuel pump (because it has white wires with purple tracers) which of course went out the window with the V8--obviously I can move this somewhere else, in the event it's something I need to retain . . . And do I need to cut off the little mounting bracket (spot welded) to make room for the final filter assy?

2) (related to 1)--anyone know the mounting bolt spacing for the Stanadyne FM100 header? I cannot find it online--the bolts on the bulkhead which appear to be for the filter are ~3.5" apart--will those work, or will I end up drilling and trying to figure out how to get nuts back there without tearing the whole dash apart?

3) Zack, I like the idea of mounting pre and post filters side by side, but have A/C pipes and what-not in that area and think it might be a squeeze--do you think it'd work to mount the pre filter on the wheel well below the window washer fluid tank? I've got tons of real estate there, and it'd be an easy fit; does it screw things up to mount it at an angle?

4) Any thoughts on electric pump models or mounting? And those of you using them, are you using them in line with or in lieu of the mechanical lift pump.

Sorry for the rash of questions--I'm trying to wrap my head around what needs to happen, and want to make sure I get it right the first time.

-bill
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Old August 5th, 2015, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdcoa View Post
Mr. Davis, do you have any more of the bargain sedimenters available?
As a matter of fact we do have a few more sedimenters available Bill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdcoa View Post
4) Any thoughts on electric pump models or mounting? And those of you using them, are you using them in line with or in lieu of the mechanical lift pump.
The Mr. Gasket Diesel Pump works fine:
http://shop.mr-gasket.com/micro-elec...mp-diesel.html

I route the fuel system:
Tank --> sedimenter --> 12V pump --> lift pump --> IP --> tank via return line.
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UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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Old August 6th, 2015, 05:44 AM
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The sedimentor in the stock location is an excellent idea.

Having worked on enough vehicles with only a water sep/filter in the engine bay and having a Defender with a sedimentor and the stock Bosch head between the lift pump and IP using either a Donaldson P550588 or Fleetguard FF5135 filter, the sedimentor catches the crap (snot and moisture) and the trap section of the actual filter is always clean, whereas I've regularly had filters almost blocked on Japanese diesels with combined water separators and filters. (and the water alarm tripped several times)
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Old August 6th, 2015, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by tdi-rick View Post
The sedimentor in the stock location is an excellent idea.

Having worked on enough vehicles with only a water sep/filter in the engine bay and having a Defender with a sedimentor and the stock Bosch head between the lift pump and IP using either a Donaldson P550588 or Fleetguard FF5135 filter, the sedimentor catches the crap (snot and moisture) and the trap section of the actual filter is always clean, whereas I've regularly had filters almost blocked on Japanese diesels with combined water separators and filters. (and the water alarm tripped several times)
A sedimenter that is purged with every oil change will catch 99% of filter clogging particulate, other snot like slime (usually dead algae), and water as long as you purge it often enough that it doesn't fill up.

We had a 110 that we sold to a guy with a veg kit on board.
He wanted to burn unfiltered veg, so I installed 3 sedimenters.
He burned veg filled with fry particles that he filtered through his extended filler neck screen.
Typically during a 5 gallon pour into the tank, he would need to empty the extended filler 3 or 4 times to get all the trapped particulate out of the screen in the bottom (that he turned upside down and removed with a high pressure garden hose).
Six months later I worked on it and he asked me to change the filters.
It had the sandwich style CAV with the top and bottom of the filter media visible and they looked brand new.

The sedimenters, however were all almost full of stuff that looked like liquid brownie mix before it was baked.
It's down now for a gearbox swap, but I'm sure it will go back on a veg diet when driving again.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #18  
Old August 6th, 2015, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdcoa View Post
T
1) what is this thing in the location where my final filter belongs? My cursory research indicates it might have something to do with the electric fuel pump (because it has white wires with purple tracers) which of course went out the window with the V8--obviously I can move this somewhere else, in the event it's something I need to retain . . . And do I need to cut off the little mounting bracket (spot welded) to make room for the final filter assy?

It's the inertia switch, I have seen no difference with it connected/ or disconnected. I removed it from the firewall for more room.

2) (related to 1)--anyone know the mounting bolt spacing for the Stanadyne FM100 header? I cannot find it online--the bolts on the bulkhead which appear to be for the filter are ~3.5" apart--will those work, or will I end up drilling and trying to figure out how to get nuts back there without tearing the whole dash apart?

If they use the same standard diesel mounting style, then you'll already have two spots(the correct location for a sedimentor which is on the inside of the chassis, using the same bolts as the shock mount, with a bracket). Or the fuel filter which already has the holes drilled above that inertia switch.

3) Zack, I like the idea of mounting pre and post filters side by side, but have A/C pipes and what-not in that area and think it might be a squeeze--do you think it'd work to mount the pre filter on the wheel well below the window washer fluid tank? I've got tons of real estate there, and it'd be an easy fit; does it screw things up to mount it at an angle?

You could definitely do that, but you should really mount them vertically. They both drain at the bottom, and you don't want the sediment building up. I'll try to take a photo of mine for you.

4) Any thoughts on electric pump models or mounting? And those of you using them, are you using them in line with or in lieu of the mechanical lift pump.

I used a 12v pump for a while, but in reality I just use it to purge air while working on the system.

Sorry for the rash of questions--I'm trying to wrap my head around what needs to happen, and want to make sure I get it right the first time.

-bill
Good luck!
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  #19  
Old August 6th, 2015, 10:23 AM
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Thanks very much, everyone--I'm about to place some orders . . .

rdavis, I pm'd you re. a sedimenter--I reckon I'll take one.

Thanks again!
-Bill
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Old August 6th, 2015, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
Here in NC, those of us that have diesel prefilter/seperators can see water starting to collect in a couple tanks. probably because we have more temperature change leading to condensation in the tank, or maybe our fuel/stations suck.
I picked up a tank of fuel in the 130 from a station along a four lane divided highway in Virginia where the truck started sputtering within 10 miles. Over the course of the next 40 miles I had to drain off several ounces of water regularly to keep the truck running. A sedimenter would have saved me that hassle. Unfortunately I was in the mountains @ night. Robert gave me one the next time I saw him because of that story. Water in diesel is a regular issue in the mid Atlantic even in this era of plastic underground tanks.
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