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  #1  
Old May 18th, 2010, 09:06 AM
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Todd Miller
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300 tdi problems

Just looking for some ideas from the experts. Here is what's going on. fuel consumption has increased. seems to be a bit more smoke, but not constant. smokes more sometimes than other times. on start up runs a bit rough for a couple of seconds, then settles down and seems to be "normal".


I have changed the air filter and will change the fuel filter tomorrow. filling up with new diesel today and will add some injector cleaner. Any other ideas I should check into? Current fuel filter only has about 10k miles of usage.

Thx.
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  #2  
Old May 18th, 2010, 09:23 AM
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Color of smoke? Fuel filters are cheap, and will not hurt.
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Old May 18th, 2010, 10:37 AM
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Todd Miller
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need to check the smoke color. hard to see from drivers seat. I am going to get my wife to drive and I will follow her to check color and when it smokes.
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Old May 18th, 2010, 06:20 PM
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Julien Dalbin
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Do you have a pre-filter or "decanter" ? do you drain it to take water out of the system ?
That should be the first thing on the list, then fuel filter, then injector cleaner.
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Old May 19th, 2010, 01:15 PM
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Todd Miller
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smoke color is greyish/bluesish not black. idles fine and starts ok. changed the fuel filter, made no difference. smokes a lot on acceleration under load or if in neutral and just revving the engine. when in neutral and revving the engine it seems like there is a slight hesitation and a bit of pop pop pop it is not smooth. this is not noticeable when driving.
It is similar to when the timing was off after replacing the T-belt. Do these engines just get out of time on there own? I have not done any engine work etc. I did change to synthetic oil, but that was 4k to 5k miles ago.
???
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Old May 19th, 2010, 04:55 PM
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They should not go out of time under normal circumstances. Did you have a lot of trouble with it a while back after changing the timing belt or was that some one else?
Even thoe it smokes, how's the power?
With all the problems with the timing that would be step 1 double check it and make sure ALL the fasteners are torqued to spec, esp the crank bolt. There was one a while back that the crank damper bolt came loose and moved on the key way causing sim problems.
when was the last valve adj made?
other then that I would crack each injector line one at a time while it is smoking and see if one makes any difference to the smoke or the "pop pop pop" could be a faulty injector. with each inj line cracked it should run worse. If one makes little or no diff, concetrate on that inj or cyl.
Keep clear of the fuel spray while cracking the inj lines... diesel fuel under pressure is dangerous and potentially deadly if it gets under the skin.
If you are not confident on what you are doing, take it to some one who is!
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Old May 20th, 2010, 10:07 AM
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steve
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I really don't have much to add to this but I'm interested in the result.

I would look closely at the timing before you run it too much. It is easy to check using the injector pump hole and the flywheel slot. If you have any doubt though pull the cover. The belt maybe self destructing.

If it is not timing it is either air or fuel.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 12:14 PM
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It was me that had issues after timing belt replacement. got those sorted and it has run well for a year and about 17k miles.
This morning it was hard to start. It cranked over but stumbled and would not start. On the second attempt it started but again ran rough for a few seconds and then settled down.
I took it to an import shop yesterday and the diesel guy drove it. He thought the turbo was not kicking in. So I checked that the blades still rotate etc. and they do. No oil residue in the turbo and all of the hoses to the turbo seem fine. Is it possible that the turbo is not working? If so, it must have not been working for the last couple of years. I don't hear a turbo whine on acceleration as I did in my 200tdi 110 many years ago.
I am going to adjust the valves and will crack the fuel ines and see what happens. Probably will take it to a shop for that, I am not really much of a mechanic.
thanks for the advice.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 01:48 PM
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it is poss that the turbo is not spooling up... the way the system works is the inj pump needs to see boost to ramp up the fuel... no boost no additional fuel. a turbo concern would not cause a rough run or hard start unless it was plugged. it would really lack power too!
Timing, valve adj and injectors can cause both concerns.
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  #10  
Old May 24th, 2010, 11:24 AM
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dropped it off at the shop today. fingers crossed they know what they are doing. thx to all for the advice. I am having them adjust the valves since it has been 25k miles! will post up results
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Old May 25th, 2010, 03:12 PM
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got an update, the shop says my wastegate is stuck closed. Turbo rebuild? or can it be fixed otherwise? who is the best rebuild source?
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Old May 25th, 2010, 07:01 PM
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Stuck closed???? Do you have a boost gauge in your truck?
with a stuck closed waste gate will result in higher then normal boost under load and again should not cause smoke.
A stuck open waste gate would result in little no boost resulting in less power. and neither should result in a rough idle or bluish white smoke.
When u say it is a rough idle at start is this on all start up's warm or cold? same question for the smoke... warm or cold?
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Old May 25th, 2010, 11:05 PM
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well I was told the opposite, stuck closed equals no boost ergo unburnt fuel causing smoke. the rough idle is at initial cold start, smokes anytime the engine is under load or in neutral if the engine is revved.
the shop doing the work told me the waste gate was stuck closed, did not say it was necessarily the cause of the smoke just that my turbo was not working properly and needed to be sorted. another person told me closed WG = no boost. and smoke.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 11:53 PM
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you may want to think about taking it to another mechanic...
A closed wastegate is allowing boost to increase to a predetermined pressure an open wastegate allows gasses to bypass the turbine housing regulating the max boost, if it is stuck open it will not have much boost and will be a dog and not perform well at all, because the exhaust gasses are bypassing the turbine wheel not spinning it up as it should.

even with out boost it should not smoke the colors you are getting. the rough run at cold start up... check glow plugs if you use them... and check the compression... a slight rough run at cold start up is the same as I have when I do not use the glow plugs on a cold start, yes it starts with out them.. but a diesel needs heat to ignite and burn properly plus the fuel needs to be correctly atomized. a poor spray pattern could cause a rough run cold and not really affect it warm..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wastegate



------ Follow up post added May 25th, 2010 11:15 PM ------

another good vid

http://www.tuneyfish.com/blog/how-to...ate-operation/

------ Follow up post added May 25th, 2010 11:24 PM ------

and the best one showing the operation

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  #15  
Old May 26th, 2010, 02:46 AM
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On the wastegate actuator on the turbo, get a pair of pliers and pull the small rod, check it moves. that way you can see if your actuator is stuck.

They are easy to remove... two 10mm nuts and a spring clip (although it's probably easier, on a 300, to remove the whole manifold as the actuator is hidden at the back of it and a real PITA to get to)

once the spring clip and arm is removed (careful, it'll spring back as it's under tension, when you pull the arm off of the little lever that actually goes into the turbo housing), you can easily move the "gate" itself, the lever should flop about.

As said above, if the wastegate is stuck shut, then you'll have no limit to turbo pressure. if it's stuck open, then you'll have no turbo boost at all, as it'll all be going out the gate.
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Old May 26th, 2010, 04:26 AM
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Gren Thomas
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Hi Todd, I've just been through this with my own 300, it was giving blue smoke when idling or being reved up, i was unable to drive it due to not being road legal yet.

I checked the turbo and found it was leaking oil due to shaft wear. I ended up changing the piston rings and big end bearings while i was at it.

turbo issue aside, blue smoke is normally burning oil, check the valve stem seals are not loose/hard or damaged they can be changed with the head on the car, a good tell tale is the car does not smoke under sustained load but smokes on start from cold or when pulling away from idle.

pull the heater plugs and check the tips, they should be covered with a black soot that feels smooth if rubbed between your fingers, if the tips are crusty or the soot feels like there is grit in it you are burning oil which will give blue smoke.

any oil running down the valve shaft can burn on the valve seal and eventully prevent a good seal causing poor running.

I have attached a couple of pics of my head showing the effect of burning oil, only cylinder 1 looks normal
this head was fitted clean in 2008 and only run for 50 hours max.

have fun

Gren
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  #17  
Old May 26th, 2010, 10:26 AM
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Great info here.
How easy is it to change the valve stem seals with the the head in place? I though it would be difficult to get the cap, collet and spring out without skewing it up.

I have been putting this off because I assumed I should take the head off, but I would love to take care of this.
cheers
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Old May 31st, 2010, 11:44 PM
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Any updates?
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  #19  
Old June 1st, 2010, 11:51 AM
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Todd Miller
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not yet, I dropped the turbo off at a rebuild shop and they have not gotten back to me yet. hopefully will hear today. handling that issue first and will see how it affects the smoke etc. Also, going to adjust the valves.
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  #20  
Old June 1st, 2010, 01:33 PM
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I am interested in the outcome.... more knowledge is always a good thing!!!
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