300 Tdi Low-End Boost/IP Tuning - Page 3 - Defender Source
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  #41  
Old August 13th, 2014, 03:18 PM
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shayne young
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
you're still a bit retarded, but you're almost there. another 1-2mm should do it. Don't be scurred.
Fixed it for ya...
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  #42  
Old August 13th, 2014, 03:23 PM
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mark kellgren
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Get outta my mind dundee!
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  #43  
Old August 13th, 2014, 03:49 PM
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Chris Solis
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Thanks Shayne, my momma always said I was special…you want some chocolates before I start running?

I'll get me boost gauge installed first (otherwise Shayne will blow a gasket) and then try advancing the timing a tad. Used the 9mm drill bit trick to start so will mark the lock plate etc and go from there.

Chris
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  #44  
Old August 13th, 2014, 03:59 PM
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mark kellgren
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no need to wait on a boost gauge. totally independent of that, and it's it's a 20 min job to advance a tad.
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  #45  
Old August 13th, 2014, 04:09 PM
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Chris Solis
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20 min for you maybe, I have a ton of crap in my way for some reason. I have gotten in there before but the rad hose is covering the inspection plate. I'll play with it all hopefully this weekend.

How much can the max screw be backed off before it falls out? mine looks pretty far out and I have only backed it off 1/2 turn CCW.

Side note, this site is really amazing. I was able to change my timing belt just from the posts here and some texting and nothing went boom! Thanks to everyone!!

Chris
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  #46  
Old August 13th, 2014, 04:17 PM
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mark kellgren
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If I were you, I would'n't mess with the max screw at all at this point until do you your advancing to get the egt's back down to about 1150 on the highway going up a grade. if you mess with too many variables at once, it's like trying to put a puzzle together in the dark.
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  #47  
Old August 13th, 2014, 04:37 PM
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Exactly what Mark said, but regarding the Max Fuel screw.....are you sure you're heading in the right direction? IDK what the factory setting would be, but it wouldn't be how many turns IN from when it starts to thread, it would be how many turns OUT from when it's bottomed out.


1250 EGT is pushing it IMO. I know others would say its still okay, but sounds like you've got too much fueling at the moment.


When you go to adjust the timing with the 27mm? socket and breaker bar, try to make sure there is very little slop or play in the breaker bar/socket or try not to use a ratchet because you want to move it in very small increments and there is a spring-like tension on the IP shaft from the pressure of the fuel inside the pump. WHat I'm trying to say is that you don't want to be fighting your tools trying to put 1-2mm of change on the bolt. loosen 2 of the 3 and slowly loosen the 3rd with some pressure on the center nut so it doesn't move all over the place and you lose your original point of reference.
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  #48  
Old August 13th, 2014, 05:36 PM
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As for the max fuel screw, I thought CCW was turning the fueling down and CW was turning it up. Since I thought mine was over fueling already (lots of black smoke out the back) I turned it down and had much better results smoke wise. I will advance the timing or turn down the max fuel but not both before testing each adjustment. I totally get the too many variables. I like to set one thing and work from there. As I understand it I will get my boost set (otherwise I will never hear the end of it from Shayne) and then turn down max fuel screw and see what happens. I believe the max fuel is the biggest adjustment and then the rest of the FIP changes are to fine tune that. As for the pump timing I will play with that as well. I get that this is trial and error and will probable take more than 1 try. Thanks everyone!!
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  #49  
Old August 13th, 2014, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Solis View Post
As for the max fuel screw, I thought CCW was turning the fueling down and CW was turning it up. Since I thought mine was over fueling already (lots of black smoke out the back) I turned it down and had much better results smoke wise. I will advance the timing or turn down the max fuel but not both before testing each adjustment. I totally get the too many variables. I like to set one thing and work from there. As I understand it I will get my boost set (otherwise I will never hear the end of it from Shayne) and then turn down max fuel screw and see what happens. I believe the max fuel is the biggest adjustment and then the rest of the FIP changes are to fine tune that. As for the pump timing I will play with that as well. I get that this is trial and error and will probable take more than 1 try. Thanks everyone!!
Correct on all points
Definitely back off the Max fuel adjustment by going CCW if you're seeing gets in the 1250 range.
Each time you adjust it, give it a few days to see how it reacts and performs under various circumstances. It's very hard to emulate all the different conditions in a 30-60 minute test run.
That's primarily what took the longest for me. Weighing all performance aspects with how much smoke was reasonable at different points in the RPM/acceleration curve.
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  #50  
Old August 13th, 2014, 06:13 PM
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Apparently I'm gonna blow a gasket here or something.. But the reason I told him not to get too crazy with his fueling adjustments is that if his turbo is not boosting correctly all his settings and adjustments will have to be redone once turbo boost corrections are done..boost pressures have an effect on fueling but not so much vice versa....
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  #51  
Old August 13th, 2014, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
Apparently I'm gonna blow a gasket here or something.. But the reason I told him not to get too crazy with his fueling adjustments is that if his turbo is not boosting correctly all his settings and adjustments will have to be redone once turbo boost corrections are done..boost pressures have an effect on fueling but not so much vice versa....
Can you elaborate?
I was sort of under the impression that you're not going to make boost without increased exhaust velocity (which is a byproduct of increased combustion). If increased combustion is what happens when you increase fueling, how do you correct your turbo adjustments?
I know you can adjust the waste gate, but that only purges excess boost, not create boost.



Not trying to argue or correct anyone, just trying to understand exactly what you mean by adjusting boost.
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  #52  
Old August 13th, 2014, 06:22 PM
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if you think his boost is way off from factory then I agree
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  #53  
Old August 13th, 2014, 06:35 PM
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So my turbo was replaced about 2 years ago w a slightly larger Garrett w oil/water cooling and I believe the boost was set at 15 but it might have set at 12 and this was before I fixed the long list of other issues etc. So for me getting a read of what I am boosting makes sense. Shayne was aware of this little fact. So once I can confirm 15psi of boost then I can mess with everything else. Fun to learn tho.
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  #54  
Old August 13th, 2014, 06:40 PM
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shayne young
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Boost is created byte volume and speed of air flow through the exhaust and then boost is regulated by the waste gate.. Fuel is metered in according to amount of air in the combustion chamber.. More boost means more air crammed in to the combustion chamber once maximum boost is achieved excess boost is dumped off by the waste gate.. If he is not getting max boost then his whole fuel to air ratio could be off.. I know the fuel boost diaphragm should regulate according to boost but (and correct me if I'm wrong) Max fuel screw is not.. Max screw is a mechanical regulator based on max boost which is set to dump off at "x".. Now you can give a bit more boost than "x" but that would mean bumping up your max fuel screw more than factory specs to compensate.. As far as I know here is the order to set.. Adjust timing to specs. Check and adjust max boost.. And then set fueling.. Once mechanical baseline adjustments are set then you can start fine tuning.. It's like trying to do your fuel mixture settings on a gas engine before setting your ignition timing.. Or trying to set your ignition timing before setting your points gap....points gap won't be affected by timing or mixture as they are mechanical settings... But they will affect the other way.. phew...
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  #55  
Old August 13th, 2014, 06:58 PM
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Okay, that's what I thought, but thanks for the clarity. Good explanation.
If the Garret turbo on a 300 creates 1.0 BAR (14.xlbs) and you're only seeing 0.75 BAR, then one could assume that more flow needs to come through the exhaust. In order to achieve more air flow, there needs to be sufficient fuel, hence increasing the Max fuel screw.
Sounds like a "circular reference" in some ways because if you don't have enough boost (manifold pressure increasing the volume being compressed) you really can't add more fuel without creating lots of smoke because it won't be able to burn all that fuel.
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  #56  
Old August 13th, 2014, 07:06 PM
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shayne young
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Correct.. But you should be reaching max boost well before max rpm.. So the dump starts well before max efficiency (by rpm cfm) of the engine..I have seen people set boost below specs to make an engine last longer.. Or because of faulty boost pressure gauges.. Or just guessing or bad waste gate diaphragms/spring pressures etc etc.. Set your baselines and then do your trimmings..
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