300 tdi injection pump swap - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old March 9th, 2013, 06:50 AM
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300 tdi injection pump swap

Under the tutelage of my friend Robert Davis I attacked my 130 yesterday. It had been sitting since November. The truck would start with difficulty but wouldn't run above idle. Symptoms were fuel starvation.
I had recently replaced the stop solenoid because the truck wouldn't turn off when the key was turned. I found metal shavings on the tip of the stop solenoid. In researching I found this article:
http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/tdipage2.htm#i

So I parked the truck and bought another pump. I also bought the full tdi tool kit that includes the disc that is used to hold the injection pump pulley in situ allowing the pump to be changed without disturbing the belt and timing. The swap was uneventfull and took me about 3 hrs. After priming the pump the truck started right up and sounded fine but would not rev above idle STILL !

@ Conclave last fall Wolf/Jonathan had the same problem with his 200 and ended up blowing his fuel lune out and draining his tank and that solved the problem. So I pulled out the blow gun and blew through the feed line and put it back together. After priming again the truck started and revved fine for about 30 seconds until it picked up whatever in the tank again.

So this morning will be an excercise in draining the tank, flushing with some gasoline and refilling,and hopefully getting the big beast back on the road. While the pump needed changing, I could have been using it all winter had I delved into diagnosing this @ the time. No hubris here
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  #2  
Old March 9th, 2013, 07:08 AM
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I still haven't drained and cleaned my tank yet, but after blowing out the fuel line the rough idle has not returned since.
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Old March 9th, 2013, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
I still haven't drained and cleaned my tank yet, but after blowing out the fuel line the rough idle has not returned since.
Going to try and pull those disco parts together for you today.
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  #4  
Old March 9th, 2013, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
Going to try and pull those disco parts together for you today.
Thanks! I hit the junk yard and found a few little things. At this point, this is all I still need:

1. 2x underseat doors (the clippy ones that break) - dark brown/black
2. . Rear drivers side retractable seatbelt. Has to be D1, D2 won't work.
3. CD changer
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  #5  
Old March 9th, 2013, 09:39 AM
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Might Try This...

Uncle Douglas:
Might want to run it off an alternate fuel source to see if it revs OK.
Also it may be time to install that sedimenter and a new fuel filter element.

Had a similar issue a few years ago in a 109 and found that someone had used silicone to seal the sending unit which worked, but the portion that was inside the tank swelled and fell in the tank and wrapped around the pickup rendering very little fuel to the engine.

On the 110, if you pull the tank, you should be able to get most if not all the trash out.

Hope this helps!
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  #6  
Old March 9th, 2013, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Uncle Douglas:
Might want to run it off an alternate fuel source to see if it revs OK.
Also it may be time to install that sedimenter and a new fuel filter element.

Had a similar issue a few years ago in a 109 and found that someone had used silicone to seal the sending unit which worked, but the portion that was inside the tank swelled and fell in the tank and wrapped around the pickup rendering very little fuel to the engine.

On the 110, if you pull the tank, you should be able to get most if not all the trash out.

Hope this helps!
The plot thickens. Blew out feed line again, drained the 1/2 tank through a funnel with a fine screen, washed out tank with petrol and still had a problem and no sign of any contamination. Fuel filter had 2 miles on it so not suspect, Lift pump primed up lines just cleared with compressed air fine BUT when bleeding, the fuel was foamy. So I tried starting the truck with the bleed screw loose. Fired right up and ran great. Apparently what is happening is there is a small hole in the lift pump diaphragm and its pushing air into the filter. If I leave the bleed screw loose the truck runs great. New lift pump on its way.
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  #7  
Old March 9th, 2013, 09:12 PM
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Humm very interesting. What an odd thing to find out. Great to know though. So now you have a spare injection pump?
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  #8  
Old March 9th, 2013, 09:19 PM
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one that had metal shards in the fuel shut off solenoid port. While the truck ran it would not turn off with that pump even with a brand new shut off solenoid, Pump was on its way out quickly. May be rebuildable....
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  #9  
Old March 9th, 2013, 09:20 PM
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Oh ok, I gotcha now. Do you think you will rebuild it yourself?
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  #10  
Old March 9th, 2013, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncoduecer View Post
Oh ok, I gotcha now. Do you think you will rebuild it yourself?
no way man. Injection pumps and transmissions are outside my comfort zone, and thats a really big place
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  #11  
Old March 10th, 2013, 01:25 AM
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Yea I hear ya there. Always wanted to rebuild an auto trans, but never followed through with it. I once bought all the parts to do an 01' f250 i had, but got scared and just got a junk yard used unit instead. Did the job just fine, but it was funny having to pay the 10% restock fee. Once I got into it I said wtf....this just isn't working. I imagine after the first successful one its no big deal, but I was fresh out of university and $ were premium.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 08:45 AM
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truck also blew lots of black smoke with the other pump and was a rough start regardless of how it was adjusted. This one is very clean and engine is running within 1/4 turn after bumping starter so no regrets on swapping out the injection pump.
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  #13  
Old March 10th, 2013, 08:55 AM
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Doug, Valley Fuel injection in Madison Heights re-built my pump. They had to send it to the main store in Roanoke but that is what is in the DC now. I forget what the cost was but it wasn't that bad.
I have had several lift pumps bad that were new in the box. The same symptoms as you describe.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 11:35 AM
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Suggestion for Uncle Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by MC22958 View Post
Doug, Valley Fuel injection in Madison Heights re-built my pump. They had to send it to the main store in Roanoke but that is what is in the DC now. I forget what the cost was but it wasn't that bad.
I have had several lift pumps bad that were new in the box. The same symptoms as you describe.
Good to know.
We send all our IPs to Blue Ridge Diesel, also in Roanoke... small world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
The plot thickens... Apparently what is happening is there is a small hole in the lift pump diaphragm and its pushing air into the filter. If I leave the bleed screw loose the truck runs great. New lift pump on its way.
You could wire up a low pressure 12V electric pump in the meantime and bypass the lift pump to make sure there isn't an air leak on the suction side line or compression olive where the line goes into the lift pump which in theory could give you the same result even with a new lift pump and if it were back by the tank pressurize the fuel system to expose the "air" leak (which would then be a fuel leak).

Hope this helps.
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  #15  
Old March 10th, 2013, 03:45 PM
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IIRC the 2.8 international engine doesn't even have the lift pump, so you /could/ just bypass it for now.

They are crap though, those lift pumps.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Good to know.
We send all our IPs to Blue Ridge Diesel, also in Roanoke... small world.



You could wire up a low pressure 12V electric pump in the meantime and bypass the lift pump to make sure there isn't an air leak on the suction side line or compression olive where the line goes into the lift pump which in theory could give you the same result even with a new lift pump and if it were back by the tank pressurize the fuel system to expose the "air" leak (which would then be a fuel leak).

Hope this helps.

That sounds like way to much work for Uncle Douglas. Hoping bolting in a new lift pump makes life better. Of course I have a brand new 200tdi pump in a box on the shelf but not a 300. Such is my life.

------ Follow up post added March 10th, 2013 05:26 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MC22958 View Post
Doug, Valley Fuel injection in Madison Heights re-built my pump. They had to send it to the main store in Roanoke but that is what is in the DC now. I forget what the cost was but it wasn't that bad.
I have had several lift pumps bad that were new in the box. The same symptoms as you describe.
Thanks for the tip Mike. Cabell had the injection pump on his John Deere 2040 fixed by that place and said they were the best around.
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  #17  
Old March 15th, 2013, 02:09 PM
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Lift pump show up?

Fixed?

The jig is up.
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  #18  
Old March 15th, 2013, 02:18 PM
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Blue Ridge diesel is the best of the best I have sent dozens of guys there and they all rave about them.
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  #19  
Old November 30th, 2013, 10:29 PM
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2.5na fip removal and refit

I'm gearing up to remove my leaky injection pump to have it resealed. I have watched the toolbox videos on YouTube and all seem to be with the engine removed from the truck. Pretty sure this is not needed as the Haynes manual makes no reference to doing that.
I am planning on getting hold of a timing kit. Any tips from you guys on this procedure before I get stuck in....?
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Old November 30th, 2013, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel_jim View Post
IIRC the 2.8 international engine doesn't even have the lift pump, so you /could/ just bypass it for now.

They are crap though, those lift pumps.
Gong! Not correct. the 2.8 uses a mechanical lift pump just like the 300tdi. I've heard that the 300 pump will actually fit, but I han't tried it yet.

I'm actually getting ready to pull my IP next month during Christmas holiday. It seems that the big nut holding the pulley hub in positing on the driveshaft has come loose, which might have allowed my TDC position to drift a bit, so I'm going to have the local Bosch shop reset it. That nut should never be loosened. Pendy says he's seen a few on 2.8's come a little loose from the factory. Damn Brazilians.
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