300 tdi in a 97 automatic - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old November 8th, 2008, 11:18 AM
shamptonrover
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jeffrey scannelli
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Question 300 tdi in a 97 automatic

how much more of a hassle is it of a job doing the conversion with a auto transmission and is the gear ratio going to work well for basic highway type driving?
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  #2  
Old November 8th, 2008, 01:10 PM
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The automatic needs a different govenor assembly and the torque converter is different. You also need the tdi bellousing,flywheel and flexplate. All parts easily found in 300 Tdi disco's in the UK.
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  #3  
Old November 8th, 2008, 05:08 PM
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....or just buy the whole damn correct transmission w/ the TC bellhousing and all (if your really savvy buy it on the motor already), available widely in and less than 1/2 the work than converting your V* tranny. Sell the V8 bits with the motor.

then again....you may not want to bother doing it to a '97 as you are going to run into emmisions issues sooner or later (OBDII) Pain in the ass install anyhow. Much different than a pre OBDII conversion.
then again, again....I see you have a, what...'98 110 tdi so you've obviously found a way to wiggle around the the regs anyhow so the first "then again" is rendered mute.
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  #4  
Old November 8th, 2008, 05:26 PM
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jeffrey scannelli
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Cool 300tdi

why would the governor be different? it is on the injection pump i would think? there is no emmisions test on diesel engines in ny under 5600 lbs registered weight. we do about 100 ny diesel inspections a month and under 5600 lbs are exempt. thay get a safety inspection only!
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Old November 8th, 2008, 06:37 PM
shamptonrover
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jeffrey scannelli
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Question tdi

thank you i do know that i was just wondering about the auto tranny part of the swap! i know we will be needing a different bellhousing, starter, flex plate, i was wondering about the converter? and other bits?
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  #6  
Old November 8th, 2008, 08:12 PM
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hi Jeff, you WILL need a zf auto from a 300tdi disco, I have done this conversion and it works great in a 90, as the 90 is a lot lighter than a disco & it goes well.

if you use the auto from a V8 and change the FP&TQ it will work but will not perform as the shift points are all different eg kickdown 4 to 3 is @ 5200RPM in a V8, and a 300tdi wont like that often.!

if you dont change the TQ then you would have to rev the 300 to 2100rpm just to start off as the lock up is much higher.

you could change the valve block in the tranny but at what cost.?

have fun
Gren
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  #7  
Old November 8th, 2008, 08:57 PM
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jeffrey scannelli
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zf 300 tdi

thank you that is the info i was looking for all is straight away i guess t case ratio is same? should i buy i t all together and just sell the v8 set up complete? is it worth doing the auto or should i just syick with the standard 5 spd?
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  #8  
Old November 8th, 2008, 10:34 PM
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  #9  
Old November 8th, 2008, 11:32 PM
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Tell him how you feel about it Cirbus!
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  #10  
Old November 9th, 2008, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamptonrover
why would the governor be different? it is on the injection pump i would think?!
Governor is the internal part in the transmission that determines the shift points. You should peak to Jim Cirbus about what he went through to do his.
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  #11  
Old November 9th, 2008, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
Tell him how you feel about it Cirbus!
LOL Gotta be an but-head in every crowd. Guess today it's me? ;-)
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  #12  
Old November 9th, 2008, 05:33 PM
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Well

I have done a number of these type conversions. Expect the costs to more then double if you want the automatic transmission behind the diesel. There will be numerous issues to deal with. The manual transmission is a better option for you.

Thought I would give someone else a chance to talk about it but some of the information here is misleading.

D90 is lighter but like a brick on the highway and will have tempurature/load problems in many cases.

I use the V8 transmission it is stronger. Reconfigure the bell housing, adapter, retune torque convertor and replace govenor. All changes that M&D engineering UK helped pioneer to bring auto to these diesels and the powerstroke version. The correct transmissions have inherent problems as much or more then the converted V8 models in my experience.

Gearing is essential. You have half the RPM to work with so you have to get it right and not depend on engine horsepower to overcome tall gearing. To low you run out of breath.

My advice would be to keep researching it and not jump into anything to quickly.
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  #13  
Old November 9th, 2008, 06:41 PM
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jeffrey scannelli
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tdi

spoke md engineering today i am going with the standard trans like i originally had in mind, i was just kicking around the problems with the zf gear!! not worth the hassle especially for the islands as there is no traffic and it is all open roads! the standard is fine i broought my old gmc diesel pu over last year, 2003 duramax, so any heavy towing or work like stuff i am ok. only problem with the gmc is that it is hard on fuel, thats why i am looking at another car for there, the other car we have is a 1962 willys jeep, which is to slow to go to town 35 miles away, but cool around town. it has a pto driven winch which comes in handy at the boat ramp!!
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  #14  
Old November 9th, 2008, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs
Doug, good to know about teh TDI disco ZF.
Jeff, keep in mind there are differences with the Disco and Defender TDI. Before you buy the whole package, verify if the Disco TDI will work for you.

-Jeff
There is no difference between the disco and defender (300) TDI. With the auto only the transmission linkage differs, and the (97) Defender linkage can be used on the disco auto tranny.

If you are using a 5 speed the motor is still the same but you WILL need the defender tranny.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shamptonrover
there is no emmisions test on diesel engines in ny under 5600 lbs registered weight. we do about 100 ny diesel inspections a month and under 5600 lbs are exempt. thay get a safety inspection only!
you'll notice if re-reading that I said "sooner or later". It's only a matter of time before they'll want everything post 97 plugged in.
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  #15  
Old November 9th, 2008, 09:53 PM
shamptonrover
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jeffrey scannelli
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plugged n?

as far as i know there is no universal technology or device to PLUG IN a diesel of the years you are asking of and most till 2001 or so are not even electronic alll of the engines in the light trucks and cars are mechanically injected no electronics or even self diagnosis capable, but that doesnt mean they wont try something, saddly there isnt enough diesel cars or light trucks for the government to worry about because americans just never wanted to be bothered because our fuel was always so cheap here, in 1985 i had a s15 gmc pick up with a 4 cyl isuzu diesel engine 5 spd tranny got like 50 mikes to the gallon i think they only made it 1 year iti was a great truck! wish i could buy sommething like that now, my gmc with a duramax only gets like 15 mpg terrible. i am looking for a 95 d90 for my project no auto for me!
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  #16  
Old November 10th, 2008, 06:53 AM
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You are absolutely right, but as a '97 Defender was never offered (NAS) with a diesel they will, as many other states already do, require that the vehicle be plugged in to recieve emmisions testing as , as far as the state (and fed. govt.) is concerned an '97 Defender is OBDII compliant.

Not trying to be a dickhead, and I'm not making this up as I see it in NH and MA and understand that CONN is going the same way as well as other states. If you cannot get diagniostics through the OBDII port the state will not OK the emmisions. The tester does not even have the option of passing.

Even older / heavier GVWR vehicles are starting to get opacity tested.

Just thought this might be usefull info for those looking at a conversion.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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  #17  
Old November 10th, 2008, 09:39 AM
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Mark B
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[QUOTE=junkyddog11]There is no difference between the disco and defender (300) TDI. With the auto only the transmission linkage differs, and the (97) Defender linkage can be used on the disco auto tranny.

I believe that the 300tdi fitted to the disco auto is rated at 122hp, whereas the tdi fitted to a manual disco and defender is rated at 111hp from the factory - apparantly the upgrade was required to overcome transmission losses. IIRC, when I changed out injectors, there were differences in spec between the disco and defender 300tdi.

I had a 300tdi auto from a disco fitted in my 1984 SW 110. Drove it for maybe 6 years in temps up to 50C ambient. It was the best vehicle I have ever driven in sand (beaches and desert dunes), and gave me the greatest pleasure when using it to tow out Landcruisers, Pajeros, Nissans, Jeeps, etc, that had lost traction. With enough speed most of these vehicles performed OK, but once traction became marginal and speed reduced to walking pace the 110 diesel auto performed like a star.

I'll be fitting the same combo into my 90 as the project progresses.
Oops - should mention that I swopped out the tc for 1.4 ratios...
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  #18  
Old November 11th, 2008, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junkyddog11
Not trying to be a dickhead, and I'm not making this up as I see it in NH and MA and understand that CONN is going the same way as well as other states. If you cannot get diagniostics through the OBDII port the state will not OK the emmisions. The tester does not even have the option of passing.

Even older / heavier GVWR vehicles are starting to get opacity tested.

Just thought this might be usefull info for those looking at a conversion.
To offer my two cents, don't bother with a '97 at this point. From what I have been told, it is only a matter of time before NY will join the ranks of those with integrated systems from state to federal (EPA). And light diesels will return to emissions testing. This is what is happening in NH and MA that the Slut speaks of. The only potential saving grace would be if a "window" is implemented for exempt vehicles due to rapidly declining percentages of older cars on the road. Though don't expect that as people begin to keep old cars on the road longer due to the current economy.

If you want to take the risks, use the '97. If you want to play it safe and leave it without future questioning, convert some other year. I strongly recommend converting an older truck. It isn't worth the hassle to go '97.
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