300 Tdi Ignition switch - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old March 30th, 2012, 08:35 PM
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300 Tdi Ignition switch

Hi Guys,

I'm in the process of putting everything back together on my 1995 300 Tdi (UK Spec). Attached is a picture of the ignition switch connections. The markings on the switch, I've highlighted in black for better clarity, read 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

I should have marked the connections better before disassembly, but thought that there would be a decent circuit diagram out there that showed what wire gets connected where on the ignition switch. I've yet to find a circuit diagram that advises what wires connect to what numbered terminals, so my project is at a stand still at the moment, just as I thought I'd begin testing electrical systems.

There are four ignition wires for this truck; 1.) Brown, 2.) White, 3.) White and Red, 4.) White and Orange

Anybody out there know what wire gets connected to what numbered terminal?

Thanks in advance for any help with this, Mark
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  #2  
Old March 31st, 2012, 02:45 AM
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Jamie Austin
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Here ya go, taken from the RAVE electrical section.
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  #3  
Old March 31st, 2012, 07:59 AM
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300 Tdi Ignition switch

Thank you for the reply Jim,

Viewing this diagram, I am still puzzled as to what wire connects to what terminal. For instance, I see two terminals marked as 1 (IN1, 1) and three terminals marked as 2 (IN2, 2A, 2B).

Also, the diagram shows three wires connected to the ignition. My truck has four wires to the ignition as follows; There are four ignition wires for this truck; 1.) Brown, 2.) White, 3.) White and Red, 4.) White and Orange

Im sure its my lack of elecrical knowledge, but I have no idea what wire is connected to what terminal based on the markings on this and other diagrams I've seen.

I'll try asking this question a different way for clarity. Attached is a picture of the ignition switch that is in this truck. I've marked the picture with the terminal numbers as the appear MOLDED INTO THE WHITE BODY of the part.

Can anyone out there tell me what color wire connects to terminal #1__________, Terminal #2__________, Terminal #3___________, Terminal #4__________, Terminal#5___________?

Thank you in advance, Mark
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  #4  
Old March 31st, 2012, 09:41 AM
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This thread might help mate <----
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  #5  
Old April 4th, 2012, 12:02 PM
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300 Tdi Ignition switch

Hey Jim,

I was continuing my search for the on-going issue I'm having identifying which colored wire connection goes to what terminal on my ignition. I happen to stumble upon your thread on another forum from the link you provided above, but I cant access the .jpg file you attached when you authored the post back in 2008. Could you send the .jpg to me here if you still have it? I think you've provided the information I need!!!

Your post is shown below;


Posted 11 November 2008 - 04:08 PM

Looking at the back of the ignition switch, there (on mine) are 5 terminals.

In roughly this formation:


ignition.JPG 23.55K 39 downloads

(in position "4" there is no terminal, just a blank space)

5 is a thick white/orange

1 is a thick white/red

3 is a thick brown/white

and 2 is a thick white.

on position 2, there are two terminals joined togerther (so you could push on two spade connectors) but only one is used,

hope that helps mate.

cheers
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  #6  
Old April 4th, 2012, 03:41 PM
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best bet IMO is to probe the contacts using a continuity tester, with the key in different positions. There should be one that feeds the others when the key is in the "run," "crank, or "acc" position. That is where the brown wire goes. The one that only has continuity with the brown wire's terminal ONLY when the key is in the "crank" position, that is where the red and white wire goes. (feeds the starter relay/solenoid and glowplug relay). The one that has continuity with brown when they key is in the "run" position should be where the white wire goes. If white/orange is for the AC then that may want to go on an accessory circuit so that the fan can blow when the car is off (don't know why but I have seen that) then that there should be a terminal that is "hot" when the key is in the "run" position and in the "accessory" position.

all the diagrams in my experience don't always add up and I have even found switches where the numbers don't do what they are supposed to. That's more of an issue on older trucks I think though.

hope that makes sense...
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  #7  
Old April 4th, 2012, 03:55 PM
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I'm only guessing here, but it looks like brown is the always hot feed from the battery, white is switched hot out and the white red is to the start solenoid. It would appear that you can jumper the two hot input terminals to provide secondary accessory feed which I suspect is your orange white. You really only need to sort out the orange white.
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  #8  
Old April 4th, 2012, 04:02 PM
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300 Tdi Ignition switch

Thanks Wrencher,

I appreciate the reply back. I do follow what you say and would agree, particularly on your point regarding diagrams for the older trucks, although my 66 Diesel has all of like three wires under the hood. Inside I think I have like eight. Troubleshooting it without a proper diagram isnt any big deal.

I think if I can get our friend from across the pond, diesel jim to respond again, I think I may just have the answer from his research on this topic years ago. Seems the 300 Tdi is every bit as unique as the early Diesel trucks as far as wiring goes. Anything I've seen published seems to only imply that the truck could have four ignition wires, but on the other hand, depending upon features, it could have five. Then I've read someplace that you only connect four wires if you have five!

What you've explained is a classic approach to troublshooting this issue and I was going to revert to that, but I was really hoping someone that owns a 300 Tdi on here would just respond.

Thanks again Wrencher!
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  #9  
Old April 4th, 2012, 04:13 PM
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300 Tdi Ignition switch

WoW, Hey I didnt even see Bills reply to this. Guess I was typing. I've got all the sages on this site look'in at this issue. I'm ready to drill a couple of foot holes in the floor and run it around like a flintstones vehicle!

I appreciate the response guys and as I'm sure you've gathered, I dont have a lot of savvy when it comes to the electrics.

All good practical advice here and I appreciate it. I should have also mentioned that the state of build with the truck has not worked in my favor as far as connecting electrical stuff and trying connectiuons out. This has been (so far) a three year restoration. The dash is not in the truck, ditto for any of the dash electrics. I do plan on connecting the instrument binnacle to begin to test some of this, but I was hoping just to connect stuff up, ignition included, and just keep going.

I'll either get lucky with advice from diesel jim, or another 300 Tdi'er or I'll be back on here bugg'in Wrencher and Bill. Thanks guys
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  #10  
Old April 8th, 2012, 01:03 PM
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FYI pulled mine apart for some issues, #1 is white/red, #2 empty, #3 white/brown, #4 white, #5 white/orange.

------ Follow up post added April 8th, 2012 01:05 PM ------

Ps - I'm guessing your #4 was the top of the three terminals on the right. Was hard to tell.
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  #11  
Old April 8th, 2012, 01:21 PM
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300 Tdi Ignition switch

Hi Jason! Thanks and I hope you didnt pull the think apart on my account.

#4 is indeed on top, but you will notice the position is blank. That is, there was no terminal riveted to that particular number, so no terminal post there. Thats exactly the way the ignition came from the factory, just what you see here.

What year is your truck? Is it factory 300 Tdi or conversion? My truck is 1995 factory 300 tdi UK spec.

The wiring connections that you mention here seem very different than what I have. I do recall that the termional #2, which is a double post terminal did have a connection to it. I'm starting to think that no two trucks are alike!

Regards,
Mark
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  #12  
Old April 8th, 2012, 07:36 PM
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I realized I may have been misinterpreting your numbers....let me clarify with a pic and get back to you once I'm back on a PC.

Had my dash pulled apart....chasing a no power to the headlight relay situation that's literally been going on 3 long days with no progress. Thinking it may have been lack of power at a header joint but not sure. Most of going crazy with it....probably will have to throw in the towel and put up a post on it. May preclude my trip to Uwharrie if I don't get this sorted ASAP.
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  #13  
Old April 8th, 2012, 07:47 PM
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Picture is worth a thousand words (nearest in the pic is the 2-pin side, farthest away is the 3-pin with the bottom one empty):
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Also, so you can see the level of insanity I'm dealing with figuring out why I suddenly lost my headlights (no power to relay)...then my glow plug/battery/oil warning light...
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Random question - do you get power to any of the ignition switch spades when your ignition is in the "position I"? Mine does not...but both top spades (white/orange and white) do get power in position II, then obviously the white/red (starter) gets power in position III.
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  #14  
Old April 8th, 2012, 09:39 PM
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In case you're bored :
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=36932
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  #15  
Old April 9th, 2012, 07:30 AM
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300 Tdi Ignition switch

Hey Jason,

I thought I had issues! Looks like your up against it and with a tight time line to boot.

I should have a new ignition switch in hand today. The original was used for forensic analysis to study internal contacts while turning the switch through it's range of motion. Once apart, unfortunatly the thing couldnt not be salavaged for use again.

I'll test what sort of output I get at the connections spades once I get things hooked up. I dont know how that may work with your schedule, but I'll give it a try. Reading your other post, I get the impression that unless there's a ground wire thats decided not to ground some place all of a sudden, which has happened to me, then your issues could be stemming from the internal ignition switch contacts. In researching my issue, turns out theres a whole bunch of posts out there talking about how the switches eventually give up contact to the spades and taking my switch apart, it's not hard to imagine how this could happen.

I'll try to reply with anything I find out.

Thanks for the pics and response to my post!!

Mark
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Old April 9th, 2012, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McDonough View Post
Hey Jason,

I thought I had issues! Looks like your up against it and with a tight time line to boot.

I should have a new ignition switch in hand today. The original was used for forensic analysis to study internal contacts while turning the switch through it's range of motion. Once apart, unfortunatly the thing couldnt not be salavaged for use again.

I'll test what sort of output I get at the connections spades once I get things hooked up. I dont know how that may work with your schedule, but I'll give it a try. Reading your other post, I get the impression that unless there's a ground wire thats decided not to ground some place all of a sudden, which has happened to me, then your issues could be stemming from the internal ignition switch contacts. In researching my issue, turns out theres a whole bunch of posts out there talking about how the switches eventually give up contact to the spades and taking my switch apart, it's not hard to imagine how this could happen.

I'll try to reply with anything I find out.

Thanks for the pics and response to my post!!

Mark
I thought that (with the ignition switch), BUT I get power to the white and white/orange at position II on the switch. I'd think if the switch crapped out, I'd not have power at one of those positions (and hence would have issues). Probably will order one up anyhow. Where did you get it from?
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  #17  
Old April 9th, 2012, 10:11 AM
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Electricals

Hey Jason,

Least expensive I could find was through BP. part number LR035359 is the Allmakes version. Weird thing is the price just jumped since my order from 11.76 to 14.00. They also have OEM LR035359GEN
for 31.22

I would have to agree with what you've explained thus far in the way of power In the switch. Somthing else must be a-mis that isnt completing the circut and between what you've explained in the way of headlights and now dash lights, I'm starting to think grounds.

Through my own process of restoration on this truck, there are grounds all over the truck, large and small, and I recall that there is a ground behind the instrument cluster as well.

As a seperate, but perhaps related issue, my 66' IIa diesel headlights kept randomly going out last fall. This truck has been restored and has a number of updates from original. A headlamp relay being one of them. When I left the lights on one day I came out to find a very slow chuging battery and for what ever reason, a headlight relay that was starting to go south (clicking and sticking) till finally it gave out. Replaced it with a Bosch fused relay, discovered that the ground also seem to be not working the best as when I connected it all back up, I noticed that the function of the thing was very tempermental depending upon the connection at the ground. Did some filing and used a larger sheetmetal screw and all has been working well since. Dont know if this help you out but thats it fwiw.

Mark
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Old April 9th, 2012, 10:14 AM
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Just tested...if I jump the relay from the "switch input" to the "output to the headlights", works like a charm. Issue is definitely the ignition turn-on wire into the headlight relay. So I'd think that if there is no power into that relay from the ignition, it's got to be somewhere upstream from there.

Time to start tracing!
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  #19  
Old April 9th, 2012, 10:17 AM
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By Jove man, I think your on to something! Please keep us posted!
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  #20  
Old April 9th, 2012, 10:48 AM
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Igntition Switch lugs

Hi Jason,

I just now happen to be able to increase the resolution of the fine pic you took of the ignition. A couple of questions come to mid;

Trying to figure out the orientation of the connections; Your picture seems to be taken with the switch installed on the column and at sort of a 45 degree angle (in relation to the lower dash) from above, like sitting in the middle of the truck? Is this correct?

Is your Brown/White wire plugged to a double lug terminal?

The Orange/white and red/white wires appear to be connect to individual lugs. Is this correct?

Would you say that looking directly over the switch from above, the White wire and orange/white wires are connected to lugs that are opposit each other and are connected to the upper most lugs on the switch with the switch installed?

Perry Mason
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