300 tdi first start???? - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old June 20th, 2011, 07:43 PM
dogbite's Avatar
dogbite
Status: Offline
Paul D
95 D90 ST & SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boulder CO
Posts: 336
Registry
300 tdi first start????

So I tried to fire up my 300 for the first time after the fuel system prim and hooking the right lead to the stop selinoid on the injection pump and it will only run for 10-30 secons and stalls like it is starving for fuel. runs smooth for 10-30 seconds for a couple trys and then after about try 4 it wont start at all till it sits for an hour or so and then will run for 10-30 seconds again.???

Ive swaped out the lift pump as I thought that was it, but nothing changed.... i also hooked up a 4-7psi diesel pump right before the filter to see if it just wanted more fuel there and still nothing???

I am at about 6000' and the engine came from maybe 100'... can that cause something?

I cracked each injecter line to bleed/make sure fuel was getting threw and they all seem to be working...

Anybody have an idea what I should try? am i totally missing someting?

Please help
thanks
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old June 20th, 2011, 09:04 PM
Capt Milks's Avatar
Capt Milks
Status: Offline
Mike
Defender V-8, Defender 2.25
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1,801
I know it took me forever to bleed my lines when I redid the engine. If you are getting fuel at the injectors that shouldn't be it I would think. Could you have a kink in the line someplace? Did you do anything to the injector pump? I run mine at 4,500 feet all the time and that isn't a problem.
__________________
Land Rover 110
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 20th, 2011, 09:24 PM
revor's Avatar
revor
Status: Offline
Keith Kreutzer
Old beat up 110
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Posts: 998
It doesn't have a black box incorporated with the fuel stop solinoid does it?

What color is the smoke?

Or you can always call..
__________________
Keith

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Big, Red and ... aaa Red..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old June 21st, 2011, 05:21 AM
Hoosier's Avatar
Hoosier
Status: Offline
Chris Hinkle
More than I need
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 634
Check every connection in the fuel line to make sure you are not sucking air from some fitting.
__________________
____________________
Chris Hinkle
Current project - D110 with extended cab and LS3
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 21st, 2011, 10:07 AM
dogbite's Avatar
dogbite
Status: Offline
Paul D
95 D90 ST & SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boulder CO
Posts: 336
Registry
so I have checked most of the connections and they are tight, the only two I havent checked are the two on the top of the tank but it doesent even smell like diesel back there... smoke is white at first then turns dark...

after speaking with Keith I am trying to remove the stop selinoid but it doesent want to come loose....it even has some vise grip marks in it already so maybe someone has tried to remove this in the past? I can get vise grips on it (in the same spot the marks are) but then there is no room to turn.... guess I have to remove some surrounding parts.... I think its a 1" wrench that fits it but cant get it in there...

more soon to come....

------ Follow up post added June 21st, 2011 08:45 AM ------

got it off and removed the spring and plunger put it back on and still nothing.... now it wont even stay running for a couple seconds...still trying to start but just wont....

timing? or injection timing? or injection pump failure?? any other ideas... guess I had better drop the tank and check those connections again....
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 21st, 2011, 10:47 AM
reb78
Status: Offline
REB
Land Rover 110
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hertfordshire UK
Posts: 36
Are all the filters clear (fuel and air)?

Is your timing spot on? Sounds like it will run, just not that well, and that fuel is gettign to where it is needed, so i'd be inclined to take a look at the timing.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 21st, 2011, 10:58 AM
dogbite's Avatar
dogbite
Status: Offline
Paul D
95 D90 ST & SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boulder CO
Posts: 336
Registry
I think all the air is out of the lines and filter... I filled the filter and bleed threw the nut on top of the filter... then bled threw the nut on top of the IP.... then started at cylinder 1 and cracked the line and bled cranking the motor over for 20 seconds... then repeated threw cylinder 4.... is that sufficant to remove all the air?

all signs pointing to timing???
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old June 21st, 2011, 02:24 PM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Online
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
I wonder if your gas cap may not be allowing air in and creating a vaccum like on your fuel line.

it's gotta be air or fuel I would think! (you sure you didn't stuff a sock in your intake?)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 21st, 2011, 06:02 PM
kevkon's Avatar
kevkon
Status: Offline
kevin
1994 D90 300tdi #730, SIII 88
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: chester,nj
Posts: 673
I may have missed this, but when you took out the fuel stop solenoid did you check that it was energizing and staying open? You can do this with a direct connection to a 12v source. I only ask because I had a problem that was similar and it was driving me nuts. Turned out the solenoid was faulty.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old June 21st, 2011, 07:41 PM
reb78
Status: Offline
REB
Land Rover 110
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hertfordshire UK
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbite View Post
I think all the air is out of the lines and filter... I filled the filter and bleed threw the nut on top of the filter... then bled threw the nut on top of the IP.... then started at cylinder 1 and cracked the line and bled cranking the motor over for 20 seconds... then repeated threw cylinder 4.... is that sufficant to remove all the air?

all signs pointing to timing???
I still think timing. These engines, like the 200tdi, pretty much self bleed. On my 200, when i change the fuel filter, i just put the new one on, turn it over and it starts and bleeds the air out itself. The 300 should be similar.

The filler cap is a good suggestion, but i doubt a problem here would stop it running after 20 seconds - it'd be more likely to make it stutter at higher revs (a bit like a failing lift pump). Try running it without the cap to rule it out perhaps.

I would have thought that with a dodgy stop solenoid, it would not run at all.

Have you done the timing belt recently? I'd be checking everything is timed up properly next.

What make lift pump did you fit? The cheap and nasty ones like britpart have been known to fail before being fitted! (hopefully you are safe from their tat on your side of the pond!)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old June 22nd, 2011, 06:55 AM
junkyddog11's Avatar
junkyddog11
Status: Offline
oil soaked filter
95 RRC 300tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: No. Berwick, Maine
Posts: 1,253
Not a timing issue I wouldn't think or it wouldn't start running. that's a "constant' condition. Sounds like you have the air out. A fuel line vacuum (no tank vent) will behave as you have described.....it will also kill the lift pump. So will blockage of the fuel line. Try running it on short lines and a can of fuel to eliminate pre pump issues.
__________________
Matt Browne


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

"Dedicated to the resurrection of junk through engineering?"
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old June 22nd, 2011, 09:58 AM
dogbite's Avatar
dogbite
Status: Offline
Paul D
95 D90 ST & SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boulder CO
Posts: 336
Registry
So I bleed the lines 3 more times with the stop selinoid plunger and spring out and still nothing. I will try with a short piece of hose hooked to a bottle/funnle and see if it will use all the fuel in the funnel?

Last night I did get it to run for about 1 minute when I messed with a screw just above the stop selinoid. I screwed it out about half way and it stayed running... not as smooth and almost no smoke when I did this....but the engine was also staring to warn up a little from so much fuel line bleeding....

------ Follow up post added June 22nd, 2011 08:07 AM ------

oh ya and I took the fuel cap off all day yesterday....
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old June 22nd, 2011, 10:43 AM
dave_lucas's Avatar
dave_lucas
Status: Offline
Dave Lucas
None
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: CO USA
Posts: 3,126
Did you modify / remove the NAS in tank pump from the fuel tank?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old June 22nd, 2011, 10:55 AM
dogbite's Avatar
dogbite
Status: Offline
Paul D
95 D90 ST & SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boulder CO
Posts: 336
Registry
yep removed the in tank pump and lenghtined the hose to reach the bottom of the tank then put a small piece of metal tube on it to insure it would stay on the bottom of the tank... never put a screen or cloth on the end like the NAS pump had....

Did the timing and head gasket a couple months ago and checked threw my pictures and proceedures and I have done them correctly so i find it hard to belive its the timing....

going to try the funnle method now...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old June 22nd, 2011, 10:57 AM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Online
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
this sure sounds like fuel line blockage to me. I would hook a piece of hose up to the output side of the fuel pump, stick it in a jar and turn the engine over to confirm you have good pressure all the way through the lift pump. then the seperate test with the fuel can straight to the injection pump will help isolate injection pump versus everything else.

I wonder if some kind of "junk" got into the injection pump and is causing an inline fuel restriction before it is pressurized. Since it sounds like a used engine, I'd also take the boost diaphragm on the injection pump apart to make sure the preload wheel, spring, and all that stuff is actually in there and set to something reasonable. I know it's a long shot, but you're running out of things to check.

This has got to be either fuel or air starvation in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old June 22nd, 2011, 11:25 AM
dogbite's Avatar
dogbite
Status: Offline
Paul D
95 D90 ST & SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boulder CO
Posts: 336
Registry
SO I just took the line off the top of the filter (line that feeds the IP) and hooked my funnle to it and filled it with fuel. Scewed the bolt part way back in the filter top and turned it over.... it dident want to start at all and the lift pump kept on pumping fuel into the filter and was pouring out of the top of the filter bolt... so I think the lift pump is working just fine..

It is a used engine that was shipped from the UK and that is why I did the head gasket and timing belt (and other stuff) before I put the engine in the truck.... it might of got some gunk in it somehow before I got it?

now I put it back together and it will try and start... small rev then stall reutine over and over again....

forgot to mention... the fuel lines are all brand new from the lift pump to the tank and lift pump to filter and filter to IP...also new from IP back to the tank....I hooked up my funnel thing to them all and squeezed fuel threw them before i ever tried to start the engine so know there not blocked.... blockage could be in the IP itself thought??

------ Follow up post added June 22nd, 2011 09:36 AM ------

[QUOTE= I'd also take the boost diaphragm on the injection pump apart to make sure the preload wheel, spring, and all that stuff is actually in there and set to something reasonable. I know it's a long shot, but you're running out of things to check.

This has got to be either fuel or air starvation in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

I agree... I have checked the boost diaphram and made a small adjustment as I am using a full width intercooler... but have tired in both positions..

when I mess with what ive been told is the "power adjusment screw" (just above the stop selinoid) I can get it to run for long times, but it's not as smooth and it should be....
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old June 22nd, 2011, 12:30 PM
Viton's Avatar
Viton
Status: Offline
Deaf Ember
Smart 4x4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: La
Posts: 1,231
I made a very simple mistake that drove me nuts when I did my conversion. I reversed the 2 lines at the tank, fuel supply vs fuel return. The engine operated fine until it got to about 1/2 tank, then she'd quit. What a pain to pull the tank, half full of fuel, to reverse the fuel lines. I guess you could remove the return fuel line from the IP, blow in it and listen for bubbling in the tank (might require another set of ears).
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old June 22nd, 2011, 03:05 PM
TS888's Avatar
TS888
Status: Offline
Tony Sims
1984 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: White Salmon, WA
Posts: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by reb78 View Post
I still think timing. These engines, like the 200tdi, pretty much self bleed. On my 200, when i change the fuel filter, i just put the new one on, turn it over and it starts and bleeds the air out itself. The 300 should be similar.
I never bleed my 300TDi when I change the filter.


Quote:
What make lift pump did you fit? The cheap and nasty ones like britpart have been known to fail before being fitted! (hopefully you are safe from their tat on your side of the pond!)
Nope, Sh*tpart makes it across the pond through most of the US parts suppliers...
__________________
Quote:
[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell
This is straight out of the Manual for Build Builders.
Tony
1984 110 "Smokey" (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old June 22nd, 2011, 04:07 PM
revor's Avatar
revor
Status: Offline
Keith Kreutzer
Old beat up 110
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Posts: 998
Have you tried making a naturally aspirated diesel, taking the hose off from the IC, is it possible that IC is fouled that bad?
The only thing a diesel needs to run is fuel, air and compression. It seems like the fuel side of things is working at least to the injectors (considering two IP's) It wouldn't hurt to make sure the valves are closing completely popping off the valve cover and making sure there is a little wiggle on the rocker arms when hand cranking the crank around.
__________________
Keith

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Big, Red and ... aaa Red..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old June 23rd, 2011, 01:13 AM
dogbite's Avatar
dogbite
Status: Offline
Paul D
95 D90 ST & SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boulder CO
Posts: 336
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by revor View Post
It wouldn't hurt to make sure the valves are closing completely popping off the valve cover and making sure there is a little wiggle on the rocker arms when hand cranking the crank around.

I checked the valves right after the head gasket job and only #3 needed a very small adjustment....

any chance I could bring it by for you to hear/see whats going on? got it on the trailer already......
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	My 90.jpg
Views:	158
Size:	128.2 KB
ID:	39831  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
300 tdi, start, tdi

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
300 tdi slow to start discotdi Defender Technical Discussions 22 October 27th, 2009 08:54 PM
1993 Defender 110 300 tdi $23,500 captainz For Sale - Vehicles 5 February 22nd, 2006 01:58 AM
1995 SW 300 Tdi neo812 For Sale - Vehicles 6 July 31st, 2005 04:55 PM
1995 Land Rover NAS Defender 90 ST (300 Tdi) MDS For Sale - Vehicles 7 March 4th, 2005 08:55 PM
MTL prices in Mass, 300 Tdi oil artm Defender Technical Discussions 4 September 10th, 2004 11:45 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:05 PM.


Copyright