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  #41  
Old July 9th, 2011, 01:56 PM
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What's the latest Paul? Get it running?
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  #42  
Old July 13th, 2011, 01:11 PM
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Sean-Paul Ferrera
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This sounds just like what was happening with mine recently. Mine always came back to the system somehow not getting fuel. Turns out that after all kinds of diagnosis and messing about the only way to resolve the problem was to disconnect every fuel line all the way back to the tank and refit them all (no idea why this worked). I also had a bad fuel filter as a part of the mix. If everything is right it should light up with a quick turn of the key and only blow smoke for that first second.

Have you checked that you don't have a clogged injector, or two? I know they are expensive and supposedly they can't be cleaned, but if all else is exhausted you may want to check there as fuel, air and compression should let her run.
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  #43  
Old July 14th, 2011, 06:30 AM
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Mike Hammond
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Have you cranked the engine over with the injectors removed from the head but still connected to the fuel lines, do you get a good spray pattern?
Does the engine have compression?
Does it run at all with a bare inlet manifold? No intercooler filter plumbed in? Does it run/rev if you drip small, and I do mean small, amounts of diesel into the inlet manifold while cranking it over. Should be able to make it run/rev with this method but only drip small amounts down as you could rev the engine way over its limit if you dump a big squirt of fuel in all at once. Use an oil can.
The injector pumps don't like water getting to the internals which rust very quickly, surfaces get pitted and then the pump self destructs. Been there done that, the engine ran but the injector pump leaked (poured) fuel into the timing chest for the cam belt. and it needed a tow start a couple of times before I realised what was happening. Cost me a full pump rebuild.
Are the injectors in tight?
It takes a lot to stop these engines running.
Have you tried removing the plunger for the stop solenoid so there is no fuel cut-off and you have to stall it to stop it?
They only need to smallest amount of fuel to tick over, air leaks which are dragged into the fuel lines by suction don't seem to cause much of a problem at tick over speeds.
My old 90 would tick over fine with an almost completely blocked lift pump but would struggle to rev and then stall/ tick over very unevenly due to lack of fuel after revving.
When re-commisioning my 110 after a 3 year rebuild it took about 1 minute of cranking and no bleeding to get fuel up through new filters and empty fuel lines. It was very smokey to start with but cleared once under proper load being driven on the road with a strong dose of injector cleaner.
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  #44  
Old July 16th, 2011, 08:59 PM
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Paul D
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So it's still hasent taking me down the road yet.... I took the fuel filter out of the picture for right now and have a electric fuel pump right after the lift pump and from there it goes straight into the IP.

The truck starts right up and seems to be "searching" as it ticks over, and eventually stalls starving for fuel. By searching I mean the idle varies up and down, starting out up and then it will drop down in rpm and stay there for a couple seconds then another drop... untill it stalls????

Right after it starts I can slightly rev the engine once or twice and then the foot pedal does nothing and again the engine stalls, but will start right back up and tick over for 15-45 seconds untill it dies again.

So even putting a hose in a jerry can of diesel then to the lift pump gets the same results so I don't think I want to drop the tank to tighten or check those hoses???

------ Follow up post added July 16th, 2011 07:00 PM ------

havent check for a clogged injector....

------ Follow up post added July 16th, 2011 07:06 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeslandrover View Post
Have you cranked the engine over with the injectors removed from the head but still connected to the fuel lines, do you get a good spray pattern?
Does the engine have compression?
Does it run at all with a bare inlet manifold? No intercooler filter plumbed in? Does it run/rev if you drip small, and I do mean small, amounts of diesel into the inlet manifold while cranking it over. Should be able to make it run/rev with this method but only drip small amounts down as you could rev the engine way over its limit if you dump a big squirt of fuel in all at once. Use an oil can.
The injector pumps don't like water getting to the internals which rust very quickly, surfaces get pitted and then the pump self destructs. Been there done that, the engine ran but the injector pump leaked (poured) fuel into the timing chest for the cam belt. and it needed a tow start a couple of times before I realised what was happening. Cost me a full pump rebuild.
Are the injectors in tight?
It takes a lot to stop these engines running.
Have you tried removing the plunger for the stop solenoid so there is no fuel cut-off and you have to stall it to stop it?
They only need to smallest amount of fuel to tick over, air leaks which are dragged into the fuel lines by suction don't seem to cause much of a problem at tick over speeds.
My old 90 would tick over fine with an almost completely blocked lift pump but would struggle to rev and then stall/ tick over very unevenly due to lack of fuel after revving.
When re-commisioning my 110 after a 3 year rebuild it took about 1 minute of cranking and no bleeding to get fuel up through new filters and empty fuel lines. It was very smokey to start with but cleared once under proper load being driven on the road with a strong dose of injector cleaner.
I havent done a compression test but it seems to have good compression as it is hard to turn over by hand? besides it starts and runs for a small time, again and again??

yep took the plunger out of the stop selinoid and that s not it...

and yes it ticks over very unevenly and seems to be becaus of a lack of fuel but I can't seem to get enight to stay running.....

So depressing....................
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  #45  
Old July 17th, 2011, 12:25 AM
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I'm crossing to Haiti tomorrow and do a little voodoo for you
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  #46  
Old July 17th, 2011, 05:01 AM
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Mike Hammond
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If you're 100% sure it's getting fuel to the injection pump in the quantities needed then the problem has to lie in the pump itself or the injectors.
Put the inline filter back, in the injection pump is a close tollerance piece of machinery that doesn't take kindly to dirt.
Is the compression good on all the cylinders when you turn it by hand?
Then my best advice is to get expert help.
Check the injectors - take them to a good diesel shop.
Then it's the injection pump that needs checking. Take it out, a good shop will be able to bench test it.


Diesels... great when they're running but a major PITA when they break. (and expensive I'm afraid)
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  #47  
Old July 17th, 2011, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeslandrover View Post
If you're 100% sure it's getting fuel to the injection pump in the quantities needed then the problem has to lie in the pump itself or the injectors.
Put the inline filter back, in the injection pump is a close tollerance piece of machinery that doesn't take kindly to dirt.
Is the compression good on all the cylinders when you turn it by hand?
Then my best advice is to get expert help.
Check the injectors - take them to a good diesel shop.
Then it's the injection pump that needs checking. Take it out, a good shop will be able to bench test it.


Diesels... great when they're running but a major PITA when they break. (and expensive I'm afraid)
I'd agree, IF you are certain the lift pump and electric pump are getting fuel to the IP correctly. Could briefly try running it on a tank situated above the FIP connected to the FIP with a tube (using gravity to feed the FIP and cutting out the lift pump and electric pump). This then isolates it to the FIP or injectors (make sure its clean though - as above, you dont want muck in the FIP).
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  #48  
Old July 17th, 2011, 08:04 AM
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Mike Hammond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbite View Post
The truck starts right up and seems to be "searching" as it ticks over, and eventually stalls starving for fuel. By searching I mean the idle varies up and down, starting out up and then it will drop down in rpm and stay there for a couple seconds then another drop... untill it stalls????

Right after it starts I can slightly rev the engine once or twice and then the foot pedal does nothing and again the engine stalls, but will start right back up and tick over for 15-45 seconds untill it dies again.
This really sounds like fuel starvation. What happens if you gravity feed fuel straight into the injection pump?
If it runs for a while it can't be a timing issue as it wouldn't start.
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  #49  
Old July 17th, 2011, 04:29 PM
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Jamie Austin
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I'd do away with the mechanical lift pump in the circuit. /could/ be a hole in the diaphram in it... see if the oil level in the engine sump has increased (because fuel is filling the sump instead of going up to the filter/FIP)
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  #50  
Old July 24th, 2011, 04:04 PM
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What news?
Is it running properly?
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  #51  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 01:25 PM
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So... I wanted to update as I finally got it running...

Took the IP in to the pump shop here in Denver and the owner of the shop did the tests and was surprised it ran at all. He said it had looked like it had water run threw it at some point as it was horribly corroded. That being said I pulled the injectors and soaked and cleaned then up, put new seals in and re installed the injectors, and then the pump. It fired right up but spluttered off idle (even thought when I checked the timing with a timing light it was spot-on) I still suspected it needed a little advance (couple degrees), so off came the timing cover again and I had to adjust the timing by a gear tooth (Zeus timing gear NOT the stock belt set-up), and back together it went... it seems to be running better and the splutter is almost completely gone. I still need to re-install the fan and fan shroud, but it seems like i'm real close to driving this thing.... depression starting to subside.....

well now i think it might need new injectors but these will be OK till I get new ones. Still has a very slight splutter off idle? Not sure exactly, but it seems like the injector needle is sticking open or not opening properly although I had them tested and they were operating at 200 BAR like they should?
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  #52  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 04:46 PM
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Glad to hear you're one step closer Paul. Let us know when you've got it all put together- I'd like to swing by and see this monster!
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  #53  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 05:00 PM
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Glad to hear that Paul. Did you bleed every injector after installing the IP? You must bleed one by one by loosening every injector top nut (where the pipe goes into the injector) to let the air out. Do this by cranking the engine until diesel comes out of them one by one (watch out for your eyes). If you dont do that it will cost a lot to run or have erratic idle.

Cheers,
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  #54  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 08:14 PM
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WELL.... More bad news....

Just when I thought it was going good and I got the splutter to disappear I was going to finally take it down the road, I decided to check the engine oil level and it was low, so I went to add oil and the filler cap had mass pressure under it....

So I started it back up and after I ran the engine for 15-20 min. there was oil spewing from the exhaust...not just a drip but more like a spew... f-en rings must be shot.....I can only hope its just the rings and not the crank bearings, rings, pistons, rods and the whole lot.... although when I tear back into it I will probably just replace everything....

Depression setting back in....

Gonna tear the top end BACK apart next week.... till then I'll be drinking
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  #55  
Old September 4th, 2011, 01:45 PM
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The injectors etc will self-bleed, you can fire it straight up after changing the fuel filter, it'll be very erratic for a minute and then smooths right out. When rebuilding my 110 I put empty fuel lines, new filter and had to crank it for about a minute on and off, not continuously, before it fired.

You got the pump rebuilt I take it?
I had exactly the same problem with the injector pump and was told that it only takes a little water in the fuel sitting in the pump for as little as an hour, this results in rust on hardened faces, pitting and then the pump eats itself Needed a full rebuild with a lot of new parts, it was fine after that.

As for the oil in the exhaust - that doesn't sound so good. What's the compression like?
From your description it sounds like there's enough oil getting into the combustion chambers to run without the need for diesel
I'd think the valve seals/rings/pistons need looking at / sorting before worrying further about injectors. If there is that much oil getting past the rings I'm not sure it would fire up at all. Where is the crank breather routed to - the intake prior to the turbo? Is the oil separator clean? (It's on the injector side of the head.) The oil should drain back to the sump and the pressure/fumes are directed back to the intake between the air filter and the turbo. If this is all clear and unblocked there shouldn't be pressure when you take the oil filler cap off, it would bleed continuously into the intake. What is coming out of the breather pipe when the engine is running?
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  #56  
Old September 4th, 2011, 05:06 PM
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Paul,

I know next to nothing about TDI's- so I probably don't even deserve to mention this...but could it be that there is a clogged crankcase breather or a similar item that functions such as one that can be causing the oil in the exhaust? Just want to save you the trouble of tearing into it again if possible.
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  #57  
Old September 4th, 2011, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeslandrover View Post
The injectors etc will self-bleed, you can fire it straight up after changing the fuel filter, it'll be very erratic for a minute and then smooths right out. When rebuilding my 110 I put empty fuel lines, new filter and had to crank it for about a minute on and off, not continuously, before it fired.
When changing filters, sedimentor, etc its not need to bleed nothing. But when you remove the piping between the IP and Injectors it would cost to fire a lot if not bled once you put all back together. Better for the battery also.

Cheers,
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  #58  
Old September 4th, 2011, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaygoss View Post
Paul,

I know next to nothing about TDI's- so I probably don't even deserve to mention this...but could it be that there is a clogged crankcase breather or a similar item that functions such as one that can be causing the oil in the exhaust? Just want to save you the trouble of tearing into it again if possible.
See my last paragraph - check the oil separator & plumbing as a first step.
Check the compression too.

Might be an idea to flush the engine with flushing oil and then change the oil & filter.

Is there a lot of sludge in the top of the head when you take the rocker cover off?
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