300 Tdi broken rocker arm *pics* - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 11:02 PM
crobinson
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Chris Robinson
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300 Tdi broken rocker arm *pics*

Has this caused major damaged? Do I need to replace the assembly or just the one arm?
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  #2  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 07:38 AM
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Probably no damage since the valve would just stay closed. I should think a new part will do the trick, however I would have the rest magnafluxed.
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  #3  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 08:05 AM
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My first concern would be what caused the rocker to break. Make sure that it wasn't due to any interference in the valvetrain. Check the lifter and the valve for proper operation.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 08:30 AM
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I had this similar problem with a rebuilt 300tdi I bought. The engine broke 2 different adjusters screws. I ended up replacing all of them and has never had a problem since.. Just replace the rocker for now.. Its easy to do and adjust the valves...
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 12:08 PM
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It probably had a broken cam belt at some time in its history (find me a Tdi that hasn't!) so weakened the rocker.

Might pay you to get a couple of spares (one of each, there's a "left" and a "right" angled one) so if one breaks again, it'll just be a trailside repair.

RH one is ERR3343 20.70 UKP
LH is ERR3342 20.70 UKP

there's a bush shown as ERR1203 22.52 UKP which is mightily expensive (more than the rockers themselves), although from microcat the above numbers show the bush & the rocker.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 12:36 PM
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Have you been adjusting valves clearance every 6,000 miles ?
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 03:01 PM
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Hey Randy, fellow TDI Jerseyan, did you or were you able to determine the mfr of those broken rocker screws ? What make did you replace them with?
It's still a good practice to ascertain that there is nothing in the valvetrain that's binding or seized when you break a rocker or bend a push rod.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFD View Post
Have you been adjusting valves clearance every 6,000 miles ?
Just done the conversion so the history is unknown.

Ordered new rockers from George today.

Thanks!
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Old August 25th, 2010, 10:32 PM
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Got the new rocker today but before I start I have a question about the rocker numbers. Does rocker number 1 start at the front of the engine and go to the rear in sequence? What are the four rocker shaft assembly bolts torqued to? Rave wasn't much help or I was looking in the wrong place.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 10:35 PM
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I have seen this on a 300 once before, it was an exhaust rocker and made one hell of an interesting noise through the intake.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 08:01 AM
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Just to make sure I would check the timing. It is a very easy thing to do with out taking much apart. I would also make sure that the rod is not bent. If the motor is questionable on the miles since the rebuild I would consider doing a timing belt change. I would get the modification kit to the newer style tensioner and pulley. That is unless you have taken it apart and know that the modification kit has already been installed. I would keep the old belt as a spare. my2cs
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  #12  
Old August 26th, 2010, 09:52 AM
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300 Tdi

I strongly suggest getting hold of the 300 Tdi specific factory shop manual or a copy there of. The timing sequence isnt complicated but it is somthing that needs close attention. Just as installing the timing belt does on these engines. You need the manual and it certainly helps to have the proper tools.

One thing that I cant help but notice from the pics is the failure of this particular rocker. In the left photo the rocker appears to have broken off at a point right where the part number casting took place. In the right photo the granular nature of the break in the top half of the rocker, which is also it's thinest cross section vs. the bottom half of the rockers somewhat smooth (sheared) surface would lead me to think that something was introduced in the way of crack propagation during the mfg. process. Whats weird is the although the failure of the part seemes to have originated from the lower of the two stress points while in operation, it seems to me you'd have to be trying pretty hard to crack a rocker from the top down. I'd be curious if there's any known history on this engine, it's milage, any replaced parts and if the timing settings have been confirmed.

Mark
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Old August 26th, 2010, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McDonough View Post
One thing that I cant help but notice from the pics is the failure of this particular rocker. In the left photo the rocker appears to have broken off at a point right where the part number casting took place. In the right photo the granular nature of the break in the top half of the rocker, which is also it's thinest cross section vs. the bottom half of the rockers somewhat smooth (sheared) surface would lead me to think that something was introduced in the way of crack propagation during the mfg. process. Whats weird is the although the failure of the part seemes to have originated from the lower of the two stress points while in operation, it seems to me you'd have to be trying pretty hard to crack a rocker from the top down. I'd be curious if there's any known history on this engine, it's milage, any replaced parts and if the timing settings have been confirmed.

Mark
seems to me the shinny area is the slow growth crack that polished itself over thousands of cycles and the granular area is the fast fracture zone - so the failure is bottom up, in the direction of stress. no? - but yes - straight up to the part number area.
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  #14  
Old August 26th, 2010, 03:14 PM
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rocker

yes, it certainly seems that a slow growth crack could have developed at the high stress (underside) area from common cycling until the part failed.

I wonder if somthing crept into the part due to valve train slap on that particular rocker from a misadjusted valve. Something way out of ajustment would have the rocker floating between cycles and seeing higher than normal sudden loading on both ends of contact.

As it is with so many things that break, it's sometimes hard to tell what hapopened first. These photos are some of the best I've seen on this subject though. Ive looked at them several times now. The other puzzling thing is that the direction of separation seems to be on a pretty well formed diagnol across the load path. Ive seen rockers break off at the lobe end, at the adjustment end, at the adjuster itself but the features of this part present an interesting case study indeed!

Mark
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Old August 26th, 2010, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevkon View Post
Hey Randy, fellow TDI Jerseyan, did you or were you able to determine the mfr of those broken rocker screws ? What make did you replace them with?
It's still a good practice to ascertain that there is nothing in the valvetrain that's binding or seized when you break a rocker or bend a push rod.
I was not but I checked the 2 separate intake valves that broke and they had no problems.... THe adjusters that broke had a slight different casting at the top. not sure of who made them. They were replaced with new Genuine Adjusters...

What sux is that you have to remove the entire rocker assembly even to do 1 screw... Not a big deal but you then have to reajust the valves again.... Only takes about 10 min.. though.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 04:12 PM
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someone make a TDI valve adjustment thread
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  #17  
Old August 26th, 2010, 05:04 PM
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so what kind of - symptoms - does this kind of failure create? Noises, loss of power, ?
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Old August 26th, 2010, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16kpsi View Post
so what kind of - symptoms - does this kind of failure create? Noises, loss of power, ?
runs on 3 cylinders... very rough.... lots of smoke...
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  #19  
Old August 26th, 2010, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crown14
someone make a TDI valve adjustment thread
It's been discussed here, quite simple and easy operation. The only pita is to turn the crankshaft.
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  #20  
Old August 26th, 2010, 10:46 PM
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Out of curiosity, was the adjuster screwed that far in when it broke?
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