300 tdi boat anchor - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old October 9th, 2008, 11:36 AM
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300 tdi boat anchor

Just because I can. I took pictures of parts from a 300tdi EDC motor so potential buyers can educate themselves on the problems these fly by wire versions of the venerable 300 tdi pose.

Protect yourself with knowledge.

The last injection pump is a correct 300 tdi pump with sensor on it for EGR. Most Land Rover Discovery engines will have the EGR system on the engine.

The funny looking injection pump with more wire connectors attached is the EDC pump. It needs input from an ECU, pictured, and all the ECU sensors to be able to function. Land Rover never put a EDC motor in a Defender. So there is no parts support to make this happen. All EDC motors were in front of automatic transmissions.

Any one else have any pictures to share on this post or stories about their experience with this engine?
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  #2  
Old October 9th, 2008, 11:39 AM
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  #3  
Old October 9th, 2008, 11:51 AM
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In the VW TDI scene there are vendors who have developed fairly low cost programmers that can read and reflash the ECUs. As I understand it it is the same pump and injector style, so possible the ECU design is the same. One never knows.

I agree it is a bad idea for a Defender...but this type of system does offer performance tuning advantages if you can access the ECU. Mainly because you have much more control over the timing and fueling.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90
I agree it is a bad idea for a Defender...but this type of system does offer performance tuning advantages if you can access the ECU. Mainly because you have much more control over the timing and fueling.
How exactly does the computer control/affect timing with a diesel engine?

I'm actually not trying to be an ass, I'm actually wondering exactly what parameters an EDC computer controls.
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  #5  
Old October 9th, 2008, 02:41 PM
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Can the injection pump be changed to a mechanical style and save the engine?

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  #6  
Old October 9th, 2008, 03:39 PM
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absolutely- change the timing belt @ the same time. There is also a reference injector that has to be swapped per JP.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 04:46 PM
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Timing tabs and ring on a TDI flex plate

Follow-up Post:

Timing pick-up on bell housing of ZF (hard to see, but I couldn't find a better shot)

Follow-up Post:

additional shots of EGR and electronic IP.

Follow-up Post:

Mechanical IP, and installed with hard lines re-bent and #4 injector replaced.
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  #8  
Old October 9th, 2008, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
How exactly does the computer control/affect timing with a diesel engine?

I'm actually not trying to be an ass, I'm actually wondering exactly what parameters an EDC computer controls.
One of the injectors has a sensor to sense the injection time. You can see it in Jim's pictures. There will also be a crank sensor to determine engine position. With that, the ECU can continuously measure the injection timing. The pumps have an electronically adjustable timing range that can then be controlled via the ECU.

This system then gives more flexibility in timing and fueling control than a pure mechanical pump.
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  #9  
Old October 9th, 2008, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90
One of the injectors has a sensor to sense the injection time. You can see it in Jim's pictures. There will also be a crank sensor to determine engine position. With that, the ECU can continuously measure the injection timing. The pumps have an electronically adjustable timing range that can then be controlled via the ECU.

This system then gives more flexibility in timing and fueling control than a pure mechanical pump.
In addition

If I remember correctly there are two crank sensors. Converting to a manual transmission would require welding on the bell most likely. Do not forget the Air Flow meter. They use the old flapper style as shown. Need a bunch of room for that item in the engine bay. Not aware of a way to substitute a hot wire style in this application. The throttle pedal goes to a potentiometer as well. So the cable only actuates the transmission linkage if I remember correctly.

I agree there are tuning possibilities. But I can't see any good reason to do this. Cost involved would be prohibitive.

Thanks for more pictures Cirbus.

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  #10  
Old March 19th, 2009, 11:40 PM
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Beating a dead horse

In the infamous EDC bait and switch post our good' man Duncan said that a EDC injction pump could be convertec to manual. I had occasion to see if this was in fact the case. It is not. There is no useful way to make the EDC 300 tdi injection pump into a manual injection pump. The top of a manual pump does not swap over to the bottom of an EDC pump.
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  #11  
Old March 21st, 2009, 02:30 PM
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its ok Pendy, Matt Browne now owns that motor and I have never represented it as any such thing other than what it was it was. I cant believe your female parts hurt soooo much You wont let it be. I am so glad you live on the other side of the country or I would think your egomania would lead to stalking ;o)
We also share some common aquaintances so I cant figure out exactly what You have against me?!?!?!
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  #12  
Old March 21st, 2009, 05:25 PM
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Can the EGR sensor be removed from the Disco 300tdi injection pump or do you just cut the wire and let it be?
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  #13  
Old March 23rd, 2009, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier
Can the EGR sensor be removed from the Disco 300tdi injection pump or do you just cut the wire and let it be?
yes....remove it.

I've had a couple of EGR motors that had security "covers" over the fuel shut-off also. This can be removed with a banging tools and chisel.

Pendy....do you have to get rid of the injector with the sensor? ......it's still just a mechanical injector and should still fire? (I'd thought about using it as a sensor for a "timing light") .......haven't messed with it, I just picked up the "boat anchor" from Steve to use the long block as a replacement for which it is ideal as the rest of the motor looks to be spanking new.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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  #14  
Old February 3rd, 2010, 12:41 PM
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What year did they start with the electronics?
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  #15  
Old February 3rd, 2010, 08:23 PM
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I think it may have been a one year wonder. last year of the 300....97? The one I had (electronic) was a '97 Disco motor and I also have a '96 motor that had all the EGR shite but non electronic pump.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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  #16  
Old June 7th, 2010, 03:47 PM
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So to keep this thread going Can anyone tell by this pic if I too have gotten screwed by an unnamed importer of 300Tdi's? I bought it in late 08, didn't recieve it until March of 09, and it never even made it to my location. Its still sitting in a warehouse in Ohio because a lack of time has made me leave it stored for the time being. This is the only pic I have and I am not exactly sure what is in some other boxes that came with it (supposedly everything to drop it right into my 83 110).

Thanks in advance.
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  #17  
Old June 7th, 2010, 04:16 PM
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THAT looks non EDC, but I am no expert like Matt, Pendy, etc.
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  #18  
Old June 7th, 2010, 05:16 PM
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jon that is the correct engine, you are fine. you can see the throttle lever and pump diaphraghm poking their heads out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j0nny216 View Post
So to keep this thread going Can anyone tell by this pic if I too have gotten screwed by an unnamed importer of 300Tdi's? I bought it in late 08, didn't recieve it until March of 09, and it never even made it to my location. Its still sitting in a warehouse in Ohio because a lack of time has made me leave it stored for the time being. This is the only pic I have and I am not exactly sure what is in some other boxes that came with it (supposedly everything to drop it right into my 83 110).

Thanks in advance.
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  #19  
Old June 7th, 2010, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discotdi View Post
THAT looks non EDC, but I am no expert like Matt, Pendy, etc.
That is correct... Standard mechanical pump..
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  #20  
Old June 7th, 2010, 11:28 PM
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Thanks guys. I have come across this thread in the past and it has always slightly bothered me. I would look at the pics that were on this post and then try and compare them to the whole 2 pics I had of this engine (one being blurry so no help). Accidently came across this again last night and started comparing pics again. Finally asked the D90 experts and feel a lot better now!
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