200TDI wont start after replacing fuel tank - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old September 12th, 2015, 10:45 AM
dfarns442
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Derek
1991 200TDI 110
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200TDI wont start after replacing fuel tank

I recently replaced my leaking fuel tank with new fuel lines and return line and my Fuel lift pump and then proceeded bled the system. I'm getting fuel out of the return line banjo-bolt, but i cant get the motor to fire.

I'm out of ideas so any help or hint into what I screwed up or missed would be greatly appreciated.

I have a 1991 Defender 110 200TDI (11L)
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  #2  
Old September 12th, 2015, 10:53 AM
javelinadave
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You are not getting fuel to the motor. Is the fuel shut off solenoid wire still attached? Does it click when you turn the key to the run position? I would start there.
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  #3  
Old September 12th, 2015, 11:17 AM
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Slightly open (crack) the the fuel lines at the injectors & see if your getting fuel there as you turn the engine over. Should show some wetness @ each injector.
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  #4  
Old September 12th, 2015, 11:27 AM
dfarns442
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Derek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
You are not getting fuel to the motor. Is the fuel shut off solenoid wire still attached? Does it click when you turn the key to the run position? I would start there.


The fuel shut off solenoid was it!

Knew I was missing something. Thank you for the help!
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  #5  
Old September 12th, 2015, 11:32 AM
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Robert Davis
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After replacing the fuel tank and installing new lines you have lots of air to purge.
This is the classic example of why a self bleeding fuel system is so important.
Cranking the engine over enough to get fuel to the engine will:
overheat the starter
Cause excessive wear in the not IP from running dry

Most people don't realize that you have to force all the air through the injectors and down the return line.
These are the only places the air can go.

I always install a sedimenter and 12V volt fuel pump then route the fuel like this:
Tank (without a fuel pickup screen ie open pipe) -> Sedimenter -> 12V Fuel Pump -> Engine Lift Pump -> Fuel Filter -> Return Line -> Tank

Turn on the key, check for leaks, start the engine.
Engine starts and runs every time.
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  #6  
Old September 12th, 2015, 11:43 AM
dfarns442
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Derek
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Very true, I knew I needed to prime the system to get the air out of the lines. I plan on installing a Sedimenter down the road, guess I could wire in a fuel pump too.

I must of knocked off the wire to the solenoid when I installed a new lift pump and didn't notice it.
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  #7  
Old September 12th, 2015, 11:51 AM
javelinadave
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I'm glad it was that easy.
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  #8  
Old September 12th, 2015, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
I always install a sedimenter and 12V volt fuel pump then route the fuel like this:
Tank (without a fuel pickup screen ie open pipe) -> Sedimenter -> 12V Fuel Pump -> Engine Lift Pump -> Fuel Filter -> Return Line -> Tank

Turn on the key, check for leaks, start the engine.
Engine starts and runs every time.
My truck bypasses the lift pump entirely (I didn't do it). I was considering removing the assembly completely and capping it. Any thoughts on this configuration?
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  #9  
Old September 13th, 2015, 04:51 AM
dfarns442
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Derek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
My truck bypasses the lift pump entirely (I didn't do it). I was considering removing the assembly completely and capping it. Any thoughts on this configuration?
Was reading into installing a electric fuel pump more yesterday and ran across this on LR4x4.com

Half empty fuel filter, time to finally put in an electric fuel pump. - International Forum - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum

Post #20 shows a guy removing and capping off the hole.
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  #10  
Old September 13th, 2015, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfarns442 View Post
Was reading into installing a electric fuel pump more yesterday and ran across this on LR4x4.com
Oscar:
You can rely on the 12V pump only if you want.
The guy who started the article is having mechanical pump failures because he is running up to 80% veg which has a much thicker viscosity.
Also he may be talking 80 KLH which is not too fast.
I suspect he has a lift pump with a pin hole in the diaphragm that is putting air into his filter and changed the filter just after it started which will cause him further issues.
The air can also get "whipped up" in the veg and he doesn't notice it as much, but when the vehicle is sitting settles out and leaves an air gap in the filter.
Burning veg or even bio-diesel without a FPHE and heated filter is a bad idea with a fuel mix less than 60% diesel.
If the veg is heated, you can run 100%.
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  #11  
Old September 13th, 2015, 01:52 PM
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Thanks Derek and Uncle Richard. Some interesting discussions in that thread Derek.

What I found interesting was the flow rate and psi values. I've been having a bit of an issue while cruising on highways. I can easily cruise on the flats at 65 or so but when I try to maintain the 65 up hills I feel like I lose boost. So I've been focused on boost issues. But I've been suspecting a fuel issue since I discovered my spill rail has a leak at the injector banjos (new washers enroute).

Yada yada after reading the electric fuel pump discussion in the linked threads I'm thinking maybe the electric pump that I have does not have the necessary volume to feed the IP at full song and that's when I get a cut in power, lose boost and it takes a bit of time to "shake it off" and get my power restored.

I need to find the particulars about the fitted pump. Does this seem plausible?

Would an inline pump closer to the tank help? My electric pump is in the engine bay.
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  #12  
Old September 13th, 2015, 02:03 PM
dfarns442
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Derek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
Thanks Derek and Uncle Richard. Some interesting discussions in that thread Derek.

What I found interesting was the flow rate and psi values. I've been having a bit of an issue while cruising on highways. I can easily cruise on the flats at 65 or so but when I try to maintain the 65 up hills I feel like I lose boost. So I've been focused on boost issues. But I've been suspecting a fuel issue since I discovered my spill rail has a leak at the injector banjos (new washers enroute).

Yada yada after reading the electric fuel pump discussion in the linked threads I'm thinking maybe the electric pump that I have does not have the necessary volume to feed the IP at full song and that's when I get a cut in power, lose boost and it takes a bit of time to "shake it off" and get my power restored.

I need to find the particulars about the fitted pump. Does this seem plausible?

Would an inline pump closer to the tank help? My electric pump is in the engine bay.

From what I have read fuel pumps push better then they pull, which is why id assume that's the reason most fuel pumps today seem to be in the fuel tank.


But most of my knowledge is on Pre-EFI dirt bikes. I'm pretty new to the Defender crowd, so id wait till someone with more knowledge pops in and gives their 2 cents.
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  #13  
Old September 14th, 2015, 10:15 AM
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BlackField
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Looks like the 12V pump is the 12D variety and pumps 35 GPH at 4-7 PSI. That just doesn't seem like a lot of PSI. What's spec for a 200 TDi?
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  #14  
Old September 14th, 2015, 10:21 AM
javelinadave
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Fuel needs to be delivered to the IP where the PSI is made to feed the injectors. Tank to the IP relies on volume of fuel delivered not PSI.
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  #15  
Old September 14th, 2015, 10:34 AM
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I'm looking for either a replacement or an additional pump closer to to the tank. What are the specs of the stock lift pump? Is there a do not exceed value for the inlet side of the IP?
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  #16  
Old September 14th, 2015, 10:49 AM
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John B.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
I'm looking for either a replacement or an additional pump closer to to the tank. What are the specs of the stock lift pump? Is there a do not exceed value for the inlet side of the IP?
From the workshop manual.
Quote:
Fuel lift pump pressure .................................................. ... 42 - 55 kpa at 1800 rpm
IME, the stock lift pumps die when dirt gets in the non return valve.
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