200tdi turbo flange pattern - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old June 27th, 2011, 05:43 PM
Naplm00
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Matthew
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Question 200tdi turbo flange pattern

So I wan to make a non cast downpipe from the back of my defender 200tdi turbo. I'm not sure if the bolt pattern there that connects to the cast upper downpipe is a standard bolt pattern or not.

If you see the attached pic the turbo to cast pipe gasket is on the right...is this some sort of standard bolt patten that I can buy a flange for on ebay?

like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4...ht_3832wt_1010
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  #2  
Old June 27th, 2011, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
So I wan to make a non cast downpipe from the back of my defender 200tdi turbo. I'm not sure if the bolt pattern there that connects to the cast upper downpipe is a standard bolt pattern or not.

If you see the attached pic the turbo to cast pipe gasket is on the right...is this some sort of standard bolt patten that I can buy a flange for on ebay?

like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4...ht_3832wt_1010
The turbo on the 200tdi is no T3, I can tell you that much. It's either a T2 or a T25. Wikipedia says it's a T25.

It is an airesearch aka Garrett turbo, with standard hotside, so I don't see why it wouldn't take a standard gasket.
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  #3  
Old June 27th, 2011, 10:20 PM
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/t25-t...item3f0b4018d1


Think this may work
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  #4  
Old June 28th, 2011, 10:02 AM
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I can't guarantee anything, but assuming it's a standard T25 pattern, then I don't see why not!

Gotta love the 3 inch vband output on a T25....you'll never have backpressure problems, that's for sure.

Might as well drop out of the T25 and put in a T3 instead
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  #5  
Old June 28th, 2011, 03:55 PM
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yup, I just want to get rid of the crappy cast manifold,

We will see what happens
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  #6  
Old June 29th, 2011, 08:10 AM
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The T2 flange (200tdi) is not the same as the T25 flange which is not the same as other 'similar' looking flanges (like the GT25 range) - unless the TDi one is an obsure flange which crosses over.

Your best bet, is to locate some CAD software, put 5 circles in approximately the right locations, then start adding measurements taken straight from the flange you have in your hand. Basically, you keep triangulating dimensions between holes - and you eventually end up with a hole pattern that is pretty damn close... You can then lock these dimensions and holes, and create the flange profile - and then get it laser-cut.
This is how I've done each and everyturbo flange i've done.
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  #7  
Old June 29th, 2011, 11:04 AM
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dave, are you sure the 200tdi is a t2?

it looks bigger than a t2 to me.
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  #8  
Old June 29th, 2011, 01:29 PM
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YEs, I'm sure - it is definately a TB02 (T2)
http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/cata...tt&pagina=TBO2

The T25 have a TB25 designation:
http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/cata...tt&pagina=TB25

There is little difference between the two - the compressor housings are only 10mm or so larger diameter, the turbines are also only slightly larger (for equivalent A/R). Short of looking at the numbers, a T2 and a T25 from simlar output engines (ie similar A/R's) are not easy to identify at a glance, short of picking them up and looking at the numbers. Only when you get to T25 specific hsg patterns, is it easy to identify.

I've played with many T2s and T25's and it is really annoying how they change stuff on turbo's that are so damn similar!
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  #9  
Old June 29th, 2011, 04:58 PM
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There you have it. Wikipedia is wrong as usual. T2 on the 200tdi. Don't buy the T25/T28 flange off ebay.
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  #10  
Old June 30th, 2011, 12:23 AM
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The factory workshop manual says "Garret T25". Section 04, page 9.
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  #11  
Old June 30th, 2011, 09:44 AM
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ok, I'll shut up now. I have no idea what's going on.
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  #12  
Old June 30th, 2011, 11:31 AM
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The factory manual is wrong then!

Perhaps the OP needs to take a look at the tag on his.
If it says TB02 then it is a T2
If it says TB25 then it is a T25
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  #13  
Old June 30th, 2011, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodave View Post
The factory manual is wrong then!

Perhaps the OP needs to take a look at the tag on his.
If it says TB02 then it is a T2
If it says TB25 then it is a T25
Maybe I missed something. I can't see anywhere that the OP has stated what is written on the turbo in this thread. Why do you think it is a T2?
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  #14  
Old June 30th, 2011, 12:22 PM
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The OP didn't say it was a T2 or a T25. He wanted a flange. Someone suggeted he purchased a flange on ebay for a T25. I suggested that as his turbo is a T2, the ebay T25 flange is probably not the right one. I made the statement that the 200tdi is a t2 here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodave View Post
YEs, I'm sure - it is definately a TB02 (T2)
http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/cata...tt&pagina=TBO2

The T25 have a TB25 designation:
http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/cata...tt&pagina=TB25

There is little difference between the two - the compressor housings are only 10mm or so larger diameter, the turbines are also only slightly larger (for equivalent A/R). Short of looking at the numbers, a T2 and a T25 from simlar output engines (ie similar A/R's) are not easy to identify at a glance, short of picking them up and looking at the numbers. Only when you get to T25 specific hsg patterns, is it easy to identify.

I've played with many T2s and T25's and it is really annoying how they change stuff on turbo's that are so damn similar!
So, if the OP wants to be sure that the ebay flange will fit, or will not fit, if he looks at the alloy tag on his turbo, it'll say the garrett part number, and also likely say TB02 or TB25.

If it says TB02 the ebay flange definately will not fit.

If it says TB25 the ebay flange has a good chance of fitting.

I have used the turbomaster reference a lot - they rarely have mistakes - then they do it seems to be 'typo's not totally wrong. If they match the LR numbers to a TB02 (T2) then I believe it is a T2 moreso than the landrover manual.
------ Follow up post added June 30th, 2011 12:24 PM ------

I've got some T2s at home, and used to have some garrett instalation prints for either a T2 or T25. I'll see if I can get some pictures and copies.
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  #15  
Old June 30th, 2011, 01:29 PM
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Where is said alloy tag? I'm having a hard time locating it
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  #16  
Old June 30th, 2011, 03:28 PM
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If it hasn't already fallen off, it'll be riveted to the centre (bearing) housing of the turbo. It's about 3/4" x 7/16"

------ Follow up post added June 30th, 2011 03:38 PM ------

As we're talking about turbo's - the 300tdi is actually T250 - which is basically a T25 compressor side, but a T2 turbine side... But the 300tdi turbo is in a world of it's own with its fancypants turbine housing...
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  #17  
Old June 30th, 2011, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodave View Post
I made the statement that the 200tdi is a t2 here:
Yes, I know. My question is WHY you made that statement? How did you decide it is a T2 and not a T25?
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  #18  
Old July 1st, 2011, 07:52 AM
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Because the garrett part numbers for the discovery and defender 200tdi (Gemini1) turbochargers are 465171-0001 and 465171-0002 which according to every reference is a TB0242, and 465175-0001 which according to every reference is a TBO243.

If the 465### numbers cross-referenced to a TB25, then I would happily say it is a T25.

The numbers however, are clearly TB02.

There is a chance that Garrett stamped up the numbers wrong on the three 200tdi variants they made, but it is more likely that landrover had the wrong designation in their manual.
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  #19  
Old July 1st, 2011, 09:56 AM
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So without a tag but comparing the shape of the flange gasket in the picture above to the shape of the ebay T2 bare flanges, id also say it is a T2 not a T25 flange.

Huge bummer since i cant seem to find a premade T2 to 3in Vband adapter.

Turbodave, you make these, or know someone who does?
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  #20  
Old July 1st, 2011, 10:37 AM
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I don't make them, but an easy option is to make a CAD file of the flange, and have it laser or water-jetted...

Of course, this doesn't get you a v-band if that's what you really want, but you could always buy the Ebay v-band one for the T25, take a disc-griner to it to remove the 'flange' part, then fit it up the to T2 flange you had cut and get it tigg'd up.

O you could basically make an adaptor flange using counterbored fasteners - but I think that'll be a bugger to make work.

Of course you could always upgrade to a T25 LOL...

For the sake of $45 - I'd get the ebay one as a starting point. If you don't play with CAD, I can knock up something for you.
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