200TDi Timing Belt and Valve Adj - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 20th, 2015, 10:40 PM
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200TDi Timing Belt and Valve Adj

Hello,

Here's the back story. I let Jimmy Drive my 200TDi and he said it was messed up. He even called back the next day to say it was really messed up. He suggested I check the valve clearances and the IP timing.

I started with the IP timing while waiting for a rocker cover gasket.

Notice the 9mm pin hole is not where it should be. The pump was either timed completely wrong or the belt had jumped a tooth.

Full counter clockwise:



Full Clockwise:



I finally received all the parts and the motivation to start this today.

The belt was shredded pretty good:





So here's the question.

Since I have to adjust the valves, change the belt and set the IP:

Can I pull the belt, then rotate the cam by hand to get the valves set (.020mm right?). Then line it back up on the indicator. make sure the crank's woodruff key is aiming at the arrow and slip the pin in the IP and slide the belt on?

I want to make sure I'm not overlooking something obvious. If the crank's woodruff is on the arrow and the cam indicator is lined up on its arrow and the pin is in the IP then I'm good. It doesn't matter how many times I spin the cam correct?

Also is it true that cylinder #1 (closest to radiator) has both its valves closed means that the crank is set to TDC?

Stolen pic:

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  #2  
Old August 20th, 2015, 10:52 PM
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You won't be able to spin the cam unless the rocker shaft is off as the valves will hit the 1 and 4 pistons which are at TDC. Set the valve lash after it is all back together.

Make sure the crank is set by the notch in the flywheel. The crank keyway is not accurate enough.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 10:53 PM
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Looks oily in there as well. Make sure the cam and crank seals are replaced.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
You won't be able to spin the cam unless the rocker shaft is off as the valves will hit the 1 and 4 pistons which are at TDC. Set the valve lash after it is all back together.

Make sure the crank is set by the notch in the flywheel. The crank keyway is not accurate enough.
I knew it was something obvious! can't I put a quarter turn on the crank and then have a free wheeling cam? return the cam to the index then return crank to its index?

There was actually very little oil behind the cover. All that gunk is shredded belt.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
I knew it was something obvious! can't I put a quarter turn on the crank and then have a free wheeling cam? return the cam to the index then return crank to its index?

There was actually very little oil behind the cover. All that gunk is shredded belt.
Yah, with a quarter turn the valves should clear.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
I knew it was something obvious! can't I put a quarter turn on the crank and then have a free wheeling cam? return the cam to the index then return crank to its index?

There was actually very little oil behind the cover. All that gunk is shredded belt.
Belt Salsa
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Old August 31st, 2015, 09:51 PM
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I got it put back together tonight.

first couple of cranks: crank and no start. My fault, the relay for the fuel pump was not in, so I cranked it without a fuel pump running for a couple of attempts (electric pump only, no mechanical pump).

Installed fuel relay, heard the pump whizzing, and cranked. This time a really rough idle and billowing clouds of white smoke. idle picked up a little bit and managed to stay running barely. lots of white smoke and loppy idle and it died. I needed to move the truck up my drive way and it did it but the idle never improved.

my questions:

- Any chance I have air trapped somewhere as a result of my fuel less cranking?

- Is being centered in the IP Timing slot enough to cause all this white smoke? If I advance it a couple of mm will it have a significant effect?

Valves sound great, I don't hear them banging around anymore!
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Old September 1st, 2015, 08:15 AM
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This is the position the IP pump was in. Pretty much centered in the slot. In comparison to the picture I labeled as full counter clockwise would you say this current setting is slightly more advanced than before?



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Old September 1st, 2015, 08:50 AM
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how is the flywheel pin? are you doing this all by eyeball without any tools?
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Old September 1st, 2015, 09:05 AM
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I started with a screw driver but ended up with the tool kit and flywheel pin.
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Old September 1st, 2015, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
Is being centered in the IP Timing slot enough to cause all this white smoke? If I advance it a couple of mm will it have a significant effect?
I've only done this twice, so take my word with a grain of salt - but each time I have set the timing with the flywheel locked at TDC, the IP timing pin centered in the slot, and the 3 bolts surround in the IP timing slot slackened, and a beam-style torque wrench. The 3 bolts were tightened after the timing belt tensioner was torqued down - not before. The result was pretty standard running - no smoke, typical 200tdi idle, etc.

So I guess the short answer is, your symptoms don't seem to be related to setting the timing properly.
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Old September 1st, 2015, 10:18 AM
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Considering how far off it was before I touched it. Is it possible to assemble the IP wrong? could someone have put the pulley on wrong or somehow clocked the IP?

Any possibility the fuel starved cranking is the culprit?
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Old September 1st, 2015, 10:22 AM
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First crack all the injector fuel pipes first at the injector and make sure they are all getting fuel. Sometimes the air can't purge from the pipes.

The only real way to check the timing now, if the pump flange might be off, is to use a dial gauge. The adapters for the pump to a dial gauge are cheap and easy to find. On a 200TDI, you need to pull the vacuum pump to give room for the gauge.
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Old September 1st, 2015, 05:25 PM
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Ordered a dial indicator and adapters from amazon for a Bosch VE Pump.

Just to add to the frustration it looks like my injectors are leaking fuel also. not sure if this is another symptom of bad pump timing.

Here is the range thats available: full counter clockwise then full clockwise:




Compared to the range when I first checked:




I'm guessing there is something up with the way the pump was assembled. I'd be interested to know if that drive shaft flange has a woodruff key or if you can slip over any which way.

Looks like the front cover is coming off again!
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Old September 1st, 2015, 05:43 PM
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One easy check to make is that when the injection pump timing pin is located in the hole, the resistance against rotating the injection pump pulley should "peak".

In other words: You'll notice when rotating the IP pulley that certain degrees of rotation meet more resistance than others. This resistance should be about maximal when the pin is centered and you should feel spring tension in the IP pulley actively trying to move the injection pump off center without the timing pin inserted.
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Old September 1st, 2015, 05:45 PM
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There is no key on the shaft. It is meant to setup by the builder to the correct timing.
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Old September 1st, 2015, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
There is no key on the shaft. It is meant to setup by the builder to the correct timing.
I got something for that guy.

35 minutes got the cover off.

I'm going to try and reset the IP back to the original position as best I can.

anyone suggest I clock the IP flange to stock settings? or am I asking for trouble?
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Old September 1st, 2015, 06:51 PM
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here is what I believed set to factory settings (added red marks to keep track of my efforts):



this looks like the wrong direction:

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Old September 1st, 2015, 06:58 PM
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so..blackfield, I'm a little confused (as I usually am), so please help me understand something.

When someone says "return to stock settings" I'm assuming that:

1. The IP is not currently at stock settings.
2. You have the ability to return the pump to stock settings.

Assuming you have the ability to perform #2, how have you evaluated that #1 is true?
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Old September 1st, 2015, 07:19 PM
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Well, I'm pretty confused too.

Here is what I know:

- I have been driving my truck for about 2 years. It was admittedly a bit rough but it drove cross country a couple of times and in and around with no problems. Jimmy (Damn you Jimmy!) suggested it could be smoother.

- I opened the IP access cover and saw what I posted up top. No way a 9mm pin was going in there.

I took the timing cover off and reset it to factory using the "timing kit for diesel engines land rover":

- replaced belt, put pin in. centered the IP pulley so that I could adjust a bit in either direction. locked it down reassembled. poof clouds of smoke and no start.

Here's my assumption: I think the IP is clocked wrong.

I'm trying to put it back to what it was before. I'll post pics in a few.
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